Difficulty answering questions

[Catalina]

What strikes me as funny is when a newbie ask for help, gets help from an experienced user and then starts arguing about, probably without even checking whether the solutions works.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

A lot of it is just plain experience. The rest is because I've made most of the same stupid mistakes myself. My blessing or curse depending on how you want to look at it is that I remember my errors and usually the solution as well.

Pat, that simply means you are experienced. You recognize your mistakes when you make them again.

 

[LarryE]

I have also noticed that many beginners already have created a database and they attempt to use it like you would a spreadsheet. Just because you use tables and fields that have columns and rows, they think ACCESS shoud behave like EXCEL. If you ever read my responses, many have the same theme. Design it properly to begin with, and many problems never even happen. And this is also why I like to have the OPs attach at least a sample file. I really don't mind fixing or designing a file. Many times, it is much easier than actually trying to explain (in English) what needs to occur. Sometimes it is better to help them with the file itself and then point them to what you did when the file is opened. I know, I know, some say that is not helping them learn. But it is helping them learn if they can see for themselves how to construct a query or create a form or report. But that's just me. ACCESS and VBA is sometimes very difficult to explain in words (no matter what language you speak). So it doesn't bother me if they attach a file and ask for help.

Another issue is many new users want to use ACCESS in a manner which the designers never intended, and they get frustrated when it can't do something they think it should. They come in this forum and complain they can't get it to do this or that. And then, it is especially frustrating for both the OP and responder if English is a second language. Constucting a sentence that is understandable is often the problem. Than add to that, the ACCESS error message system. Many error messages are so general as to be meaningless to users even if they meant something to the design engineer.

I like ACCESS and this forum. I have learned so much over the years and for the most part, the responders have been very helpful and respectful. It is not always apparent how much experience, or what experience, the OP has. It's a crapshoot sometimes just how much information to give or how much they really need. I was never a programmer to begin with. My focus was always operations auditing and how to improve productivity using technology. From the very first time I opened a LOTUS 1-2-3 spreadsheet, I knew we can use this to help us (that was about 1983 or 4 I believe). I was also on the Microsoft user testing team in Redmond when EXCEL was first developed. They gave each of us a free copy for helping them test and give feedback. My first ACCESS introduction was 1999. I don't remember what version that was, but I converted an EXCEL file over and was hooked. A lot has changed since then.

At the end of the day, we all are trying our best to help others.

 

[moke123]

Now THAT one forced me to look it up - and I took Latin many moons ago. Maybe 11 lustrums ago. Learn something new (or old) every day here!

Same

Me too. High 5's all around.

 

[jdraw]

@LarryE.

"it is especially frustrating for both the OP and responder if English is a second language. Constucting a sentence that is understandable is often the problem."
This is very true. The recommendation to the OP is to use Google Translate - use your own language, translate to English and post. If I can find a few words in the OP's language, I often work with GT to determine the native language and even post a message in that language to use Google Translate. I recall one poster who was working on bacteria and sensitivity. His database structure was incorrect and he self-proclaimed his English to be weak. I looked at some of his field names and determined he was Portuguese. So, I responded with

"Se você acha que seu inglês não é suficiente para a comunicação, uma coisa que você pode fazer é usar o Google Translate.
Digite sua descrição em seu idioma e peça ao tradutor do Google para mostrar a tradução em inglês. Pode não ser perfeito, mas certamente deve ser suficiente para o diálogo."

And he said-- "Man, I almost thought that you were a brazilian too. lol."

 

[KitaYama]

@KitaYama Your English is better than that of many native speakers.

Thanks for the compliment. But to be honest, it's not my English. I mostly use google translate and Weblio (a local site for learning English).
Let me give you an example. I first used "I really appreciate your compliment", but then I noticed I've never seen "your" being used with "compliment". So I did a search on it and the first several sites told me though it's not wrong, but it's too much formal and it's better to say "Thanks for the compliment". I simply used what I was told and learned a lesson.
You see, I'm still learning

English (reading/writing at least) has improved substantially since you have been actively posting.

You're absolutely correct. I think I've had a good progress.

Pat, Many years ago when I was young and in university, I started learning French. We had to take a course in foreign language and I was too good in German. So I went for French. At the end of 4 years of trying hard, the professor told me that I did a good job and if he closes his eyes and listen to me, he would think I'm a Moroccans living in Paris.
To this day, I never understood if he's trying to tell me my accent is terrible or not.

 

[Pat Hartman]

I think it depends on what the professor thought of Moroccans in general The French are really persnickety and judgmental of people who butcher French when they speak. Most other people are happy to help you when you mispronounce a word or use it incorrectly.

Regarding the two versions of the thank you, written English tends to be more formal than conversational English. I'm going to guess that to be pretty universal to all languages. When you are writing, you don't have any visual clues to help decipher the message so, the written words have to stand alone. Being pretty old school, my writing is much more formal than the younger people on the forum. Some of our members write here as if they were texting. They don't bother with capitalization or punctuation and frequently use slang that an older person would never use when writing and would rarely use when speaking.

 

[Cotswold]

On a different forum and in a different language, I had one vitriolic response that roughly condenses to :
"I didn't ask to be told how to do it, I require the complete solution."

Needless to say, he received a somewhat sarcastic retort.

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

I didn't ask to be told how to do it, I require the complete solution."

Was his name Oliver?

 

[Gasman]

Another request is
' I do not want people to comment on anything other than what I am asking for'

 

[Cotswold]

Was his name Oliver?

Well, now you mention it Uncle.........you could well be right

 

[AngelSpeaks]

On a different forum and in a different language, I had one vitriolic response that roughly condenses to :
"I didn't ask to be told how to do it, I require the complete solution."

Needless to say, he received a somewhat sarcastic retort.

Then the best response would be an invoice for services. I'm a moderator on a professional tax and accounting forum that is only for professionals and when a DIY sneaks in they have the same demands. We delete their posts and Admin deletes their account.

 

[CJ_London]

I remember one OP from many years ago who's view was we had to do exactly what they wanted - and if you were a smidgeon off from their perspective (e.g. used 'field' instead of 'column') he would complain like billyo and call us amateurs.

 

[LarryE]

@LarryE.

"it is especially frustrating for both the OP and responder if English is a second language. Constucting a sentence that is understandable is often the problem."
This is very true. The recommendation to the OP is to use Google Translate - use your own language, translate to English and post. If I can find a few words in the OP's language, I often work with GT to determine the native language and even post a message in that language to use Google Translate. I recall one poster who was working on bacteria and sensitivity. His database structure was incorrect and he self-proclaimed his English to be weak. I looked at some of his field names and determined he was Portuguese. So, I responded with

"Se você acha que seu inglês não é suficiente para a comunicação, uma coisa que você pode fazer é usar o Google Translate.
Digite sua descrição em seu idioma e peça ao tradutor do Google para mostrar a tradução em inglês. Pode não ser perfeito, mas certamente deve ser suficiente para o diálogo."

And he said-- "Man, I almost thought that you were a brazilian too. lol."

HaHa...yeah and I know some native English speakers who can't put a proper sentence together as well..

 

[Pat Hartman]

HaHa...yeah and I know some native English speakers who can't put a proper sentence together as well

Back in my COBOL days when we didn't have "replace" to fix spelling errors so no one bothered because it was too much trouble, I had a programmer who couldn't spell to save himself. Would he use a dictionary, No. My teeth used to grind when I had to modify something he'd written.

 

[cheekybuddha]

My teeth used to grind when I had to modify something he'd written.

I have that sometimes when it's not even technically an error, eg:

Me.txt1.BackColor = vbArrrrgghh

 

[Pat Hartman]

That's the new version of Andy. I'm surrounded by Andy's. Help me I'm drowning. We did insist that Andy fix the typos when the user was going to see them on a form or report.

 

[cheekybuddha]

However, if I fix .BackColour then the compiler complains!!!