Gun laws do they work (1 Viewer)

[Frothingslosh]

Although true, remember the size of America against the size of the UK.

In the first two months of 2015, 176 civilians have been killed by police.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/blake-fleetwood/civilians-killed-by-police_b_6801510.html

Even if you adjust based on the relative size of the populations, I'm pretty sure that's WAY higher than the rate it's happening in the UK.

I get that, a lot of the time, cops have to be far more cautious about getting killed here than virtually any other Western nation, but seriously, how much force does it take to deal with a homeless drunk?

 

[ConnorGiles]

Honestly, the problems in Ferguson have far more to do with systemic racism than anything else. Guns made the situation worse, but they hardly caused it. I'd wager money that if Darren Wilson hadn't had a gun, Michael Brown would have been beaten half (or more) to death instead.

And the most recent shootings did nothing but give the 'the cops can do nothing wrong' crowd more ammunition (pun intended). It doesn't help that the suspect claims he was doing a drive-by on someone else and hit the cops by accident.

In all fairness Frothing, I had read that he reached for Wilson's gun.

Be it the gun wasn't there, I'm sure the police have some sort of training to deal with people one to one to apprehend them. I'm pretty sure he was meant to have a partner anyway. (If not, would have helped the situation dramatically in my thoughts)

 

[ConnorGiles]

In the first two months of 2015, 176 civilians have been killed by police.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/blake-fleetwood/civilians-killed-by-police_b_6801510.html

Even if you adjust based on the relative size of the populations, I'm pretty sure that's WAY higher than the rate it's happening in the UK.

I get that, a lot of the time, cops have to be far more cautious about getting killed here than virtually any other Western nation, but seriously, how much force does it take to deal with a homeless drunk?

Without looking at the link (I hate HuffingtonPost, I find it so unreliable), I would suspect that most of the killings by the police are commited via firearm?

It's a lot harder to kill someone over here without a firearm. Beating someone to death via baton and stun gun really wouldn't go unnoticed.

 

[Frothingslosh]

In all fairness Frothing, I had read that he reached for Wilson's gun.

Be it the gun wasn't there, I'm sure the police have some sort of training to deal with people one to one to apprehend them. I'm pretty sure he was meant to have a partner anyway. (If not, would have helped the situation dramatically in my thoughts)

Yes, he reached for the gun, and even assuming Wilson was being 100% truthful (which would be a miracle - in stressful situations, no one, not even police, remembers everything), the handling after the fact was awful. They completely ignored evidenciary procedures, whitewashed the case, and at the grand jury, the prosecutor acted like he was a freaking defense attorney.

I was more referring to the stats in Ferguson, with how much more likely black folks are to be the victims of police violence than white folks, coupled with the KKK members Anonymous found on the force, and the Department of Justice report hammering the Ferguson PD.

 

[Frothingslosh]

Without looking at the link (I hate HuffingtonPost, I find it so unreliable), I would suspect that most of the killings by the police are commited via firearm?

It's a lot harder to kill someone over here without a firearm. Beating someone to death via baton and stun gun really wouldn't go unnoticed.

Yeah, I normally really try to avoid HuffPo links - they're approximately as 'Fair and Balanced' as Fox news, just in the other direction - that one was just the first I found with raw numbers in it.

Virtually all killings of and by police are by firearm. There are the occasional taser-related deaths, but almost never anything else - beating deaths by police generally make the front page. As my dad used to say, the biggest loser in the world is the guy who brings a knife to a gun fight.

Now, mind you, I'm not saying cops here don't need guns. Since you have to assume the citizenry is going to be armed - including the bad guys - the police need to be able to respond with equivalent force. It just seems any more that they're relying far more on shooting first rather than talking.

 

[ConnorGiles]

Anonymous the famous hacking group?

I'm definitely not disputing Racial Bias isn't part of Ferguson PD, Because I'm quite sure (not just Ferguson) that police world wide have some sort of Bias, Which of course depends on the police man/woman in general.

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

In the first two months of 2015, 176 civilians have been killed by police.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/blake-fleetwood/civilians-killed-by-police_b_6801510.html

Even if you adjust based on the relative size of the populations, I'm pretty sure that's WAY higher than the rate it's happening in the UK.

I get that, a lot of the time, cops have to be far more cautious about getting killed here than virtually any other Western nation, but seriously, how much force does it take to deal with a homeless drunk?

Riots in London and elsewhere were triggered by shooting death by police. They are rare though.

http://www.pri.org/stories/2014-08-18/how-many-times-british-cops-fired-guns-all-last-year-3

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

Most Prophecies that are "Made" are usually so Vague that even I could make one up, Ready? - "When the Moon is full the brown horse will win the race".

If you view some of the prophecies stated over the years, you will see how vague they truly are. One day they are bound to come true which is why they never have a expiry date on them - The Mayans did that once we have surpassed their end of days date)



Although true, remember the size of America against the size of the UK.

Yes homicides in the US approximately 5 * greater. For police on duty higher still. Even accounting the population size differences.

 

[ConnorGiles]

Yeah, I normally really try to avoid HuffPo links - they're approximately as 'Fair and Balanced' as Fox news, just in the other direction - that one was just the first I found with raw numbers in it.

Virtually all killings of and by police are by firearm. There are the occasional taser-related deaths, but almost never anything else - beating deaths by police generally make the front page. As my dad used to say, the biggest loser in the world is the guy who brings a knife to a gun fight.

Now, mind you, I'm not saying cops here don't need guns. Since you have to assume the citizenry is going to be armed - including the bad guys - the police need to be able to respond with equivalent force. It just seems any more that they're relying far more on shooting first rather than talking.

Police over your side of the pond almost certainly need guns, It's like putting a chicken in a pen with wolves.

Until guns are properly handled, Police need their guns to protect themselves as much as protecting other people.

 

[ConnorGiles]

Yes homicides in the US approximately 5 * greater. For police on duty higher still. Even accounting the population size differences.

and I would almost solely put that down to Guns. which is why ours is so low.

 

[Frothingslosh]

Anonymous the famous hacking group?

That's not really what they are (are your teeth or your tongue you?), but yeah, them. They did a bunch of checking, and found quite a few members of the Ferguson PD were open members of the KKK. For some of them, all it took was going to their Facebook pages.

 

[ConnorGiles]

That's not really what they are (are your teeth or your tongue you?), but yeah, them. They did a bunch of checking, and found quite a few members of the Ferguson PD were open members of the KKK. For some of them, all it took was going to their Facebook pages.

Not quite sure what that saying is about ?

I'm quite sure if many peoples facebook pages are looked at via their bosses it would mean a lot of jobs available

 

[Frothingslosh]

It's an old saying, I believe originally from England.

Basically, you are not your tongue or your teeth, but you contain them as part of you. In a similar manner, Anonymous contains the hacktivists you're thinking of within it, but that's far from all it is. Anon also staged mass protests of Scientology some years back to try to get the word out about how messed up they are, they've done assorted fund raisers for disaster relief, and also done internet witch-hunts. They also include the jackasses behind GamerGate.

They're basically an amalgamation of the users of the various chan-sites and some SomethingAwful folks (4-chan was a spin-off from SA a long time ago). They're called Anon simply because there are no logins on 4-chan - everyone is Anon, and they take pride in having a kind of group identity.

Most folks think they're hackers simply because the hacking activities have gotten the most news.

 

[ConnorGiles]

It's an old saying, I believe originally from England.

Basically, you are not your tongue or your teeth, but you contain them as part of you. In a similar manner, Anonymous contains the hacktivists you're thinking of within it, but that's far from all it is. Anon also staged mass protests of Scientology some years back to try to get the word out about how messed up they are, they've done assorted fund raisers for disaster relief, and also done internet witch-hunts. They also include the jackasses behind GamerGate.

They're basically an amalgamation of the users of the various chan-sites and some SomethingAwful folks (4-chan was a spin-off from SA a long time ago). They're called Anon simply because there are no logins on 4-chan - everyone is Anon, and they take pride in having a kind of group identity.

Most folks think they're hackers simply because the hacking activities have gotten the most news.

Hmm, Makes sense.

But yet they do take credit as being an Active Hacking group. I could quite simply say I am part of Anonymous and be accepted. Even if I knew next to nothing about hacking.

They aren't all bad though.

Hackers within Anonymous have actively shut down many ISIS recruitment sites and have had enough of Kanye West being a child and have proclaimed "You will not be tolerated any more".

Wonder what will happen

 

[Frothingslosh]

Oh, as I said, the Hacktivists are the most visible, but if you google "Scientology protests" and look at the images that pop up, those are also almost entirely Anonymous. The Guy Fawkes masks were to combat Scientology's doctrine that all people attacking it must be destroyed. And yes, Scientologists did do everything they could to find the identities of the people protesting, including filming them, following them around, getting license plate numbers, siccing security on them, filing police complaints, you name it.

 

[Bladerunner]

and I would almost solely put that down to Guns. which is why ours is so low.

You have no guns yet you still have gun deaths????????/ Who Still have the guns? the criminal, bad guy,etc. Does he have a permit, did he have a background check....shall I go on. You people over there speak with authority that if the guns were removed or at least background checks were made, no gun deaths would occur.

"There were 640 Murders / Homicides in Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) in 2011/12 (10.43 per million population)
Of these 640 Murders / Homicides, 44 involved a gun or firearm as the main weapon. Gun murders in Britain in 2011/12 represent 6% of the murder cases, (0.72 gun homicides per million population)." http://www.citizensreportuk.org/reports/murders-fatal-violence-uk.html

for such a little country (land mass only)you sure do have a lot of murders. But the thing that stands out is the 44 involved a gun. I will say it again, Gun Control Does Not Work.

Blade

 

[Brianwarnock]

You have no guns yet you still have gun deaths????????/ Who Still have the guns? the criminal, bad guy,etc. Does he have a permit, did he have a background check....shall I go on. You people over there speak with authority that if the guns were removed or at least background checks were made, no gun deaths would occur.

"There were 640 Murders / Homicides in Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) in 2011/12 (10.43 per million population)
Of these 640 Murders / Homicides, 44 involved a gun or firearm as the main weapon. Gun murders in Britain in 2011/12 represent 6% of the murder cases, (0.72 gun homicides per million population)." http://www.citizensreportuk.org/reports/murders-fatal-violence-uk.html

for such a little country (land mass only)you sure do have a lot of murders. But the thing that stands out is the 44 involved a gun. I will say it again, Gun Control Does Not Work.

Blade

And the figures for the USA are?

I'm about to go out for the day so don't have time to post all the google found links that compare gun homicides across countries but a quick glance suggests the USA does not come out well versus the UK.

Brian

 

[ConnorGiles]

You have no guns yet you still have gun deaths????????/ Who Still have the guns? the criminal, bad guy,etc. Does he have a permit, did he have a background check....shall I go on. You people over there speak with authority that if the guns were removed or at least background checks were made, no gun deaths would occur.

"There were 640 Murders / Homicides in Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) in 2011/12 (10.43 per million population)
Of these 640 Murders / Homicides, 44 involved a gun or firearm as the main weapon. Gun murders in Britain in 2011/12 represent 6% of the murder cases, (0.72 gun homicides per million population)." http://www.citizensreportuk.org/reports/murders-fatal-violence-uk.html

for such a little country (land mass only)you sure do have a lot of murders. But the thing that stands out is the 44 involved a gun. I will say it again, Gun Control Does Not Work.

Blade

There will always be guns, good or bad people.

Lets say the UK was the size of the US without guns you would still dwarf our death rate via guns.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm

3.5 deaths per 100,000 people via firearms alone, this doesn't even include injuries.

Thats 1.6 people killed not Firearm related.

To me that's disgusting

I dread to think of the US's overall stats for firearm related injuries/deaths.

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

You have no guns yet you still have gun deaths????????/ Who Still have the guns? the criminal, bad guy,etc. Does he have a permit, did he have a background check....shall I go on. You people over there speak with authority that if the guns were removed or at least background checks were made, no gun deaths would occur.

"There were 640 Murders / Homicides in Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) in 2011/12 (10.43 per million population)
Of these 640 Murders / Homicides, 44 involved a gun or firearm as the main weapon. Gun murders in Britain in 2011/12 represent 6% of the murder cases, (0.72 gun homicides per million population)." http://www.citizensreportuk.org/reports/murders-fatal-violence-uk.html

for such a little country (land mass only)you sure do have a lot of murders. But the thing that stands out is the 44 involved a gun. I will say it again, Gun Control Does Not Work.

Blade

:banghead:

 

[Frothingslosh]

:banghead:

Yeah, you should know by now that he sees the world in black and white. Either everyone has their own personal armory, or else the ravening hordes of police, criminals, and other undesireables will ra** you to death, eat your flesh, and sew your skin into their clothing. (And if you're very, very lucky, they'll even do it in that order.)