Gun laws do they work (1 Viewer)

Why does a private individual need a semi automatic rifle?

Why are private citizens allowed to buy military grade hardware, which sole intentions are to kill other human beings?

For me, these are key questions that the people of the US need to ask themselves
 
To answer the original question. It is quite clear they do not work. Will it possible to change them. Probably not given the strength of the NRA and others.
 
Let us put the blame where it belongs. The mother was a wealthy woman (thru divorce settlement). She took up a hobby of gun collection and target shooting. She collected six guns including semi-automatic rifles. She failed to secure them in her house. Her son (with mental problems) was able to get hold of the guns and did this horrendous act.

So the mother is to blame and the son is to blame. And 26 people were killed. Why does the mother making a mistake and the son having mental problems allow 26 people to die? Why do we allow 1 person making a mistake to put that much killing power into a person's hands?

At least some of the blame belongs on the NRA and those that support the organization.

The mother failed to connect the dots. There is a lesson for gun owners. Make sure the guns do not fall into the hands of others (even in your own households).

Here's the part I never understood about individuals that use guns for self defense. Assuming that the guns are properly secured and unloaded, doesn't it take at least 5-10 minutes to run to the where the guns are stored, access them, and load them?

If so, and the fanatic gun owner's dream of a person breaking into their house comes true, how will they be able to use their guns in defense?

I would think a baseball bat would be more effective and less likely to cause unintentional injuries/death.
 
I am as saddened by the school shootings as anyone else, but a lot of the talk of gun control is as usual pointing in the wrong direction. When we see what Adam Lanza did and conclude that gun control is the answer, we are looking through the wrong end of the microscope. We see the guns and demonize them. ADAM LANZA was the demon. He could have used a damned knife and fork and still killed a lot of kids and teachers.

I don't think that guns should be widely available, but there is a balance point for gun ownership that should be not at "everyone has one" and not at "nobody has one." Somewhere in the middle is the right answer. Taking away guns from everyone is the wrong answer.

Look to history or you will be doomed to repeat it. Hitler confiscated guns from the public at some point before 1938. When the pogroms started, nobody could defend themselves against a wrong-headed government. And yes, that IS what it sounds like. I don't like everything that graphic novelist Alan Moore has written, but one of his catch-phrases from "V for Vendetta" is absolutely true: A people should not fear their government; a government should fear their people. It is that fear that prevents government oppression.

We cannot forget that headlines were shown on CNN on the "crawl" under the main screen a the same time as the shootings about a whack-job from China who went into a school and slashed over 20 children. So in a more repressive regime where guns were not available, tragedy struck anyway and at the same time.

We have to remember that Adam Lanza didn't purchase the guns, he took them from someone who legally had them. A waiting period wouldn't have made a difference. Tighter permit laws wouldn't have made a difference. Making it harder to get ammunition for certain types of gun would not have made a difference. Banning assault rifles wouldn't have made a difference because the Bushmaster wasn't an assault rifle. It didn't have full-auto mode available. It was just a glorified hunting rifle adapted from a military assault rifle. Something else, however, WOULD have made a very big difference.

All too many people take the attitude of "it is not my problem" or "I don't want to get involved." When Adam was younger and started showing signs of being disturbed, someone should have done his mother a great kindness by telling her of her son's aberrant behavior. From the news articles I have read, she tried to be a good mother and to involve herself with her son's life. There is an old adage about "as the twig is bent, so grows the tree." If I may offer a corollary, "as the twig is straightened, so grows the tree." It is the attitude of society to ignore rather than intervene in youthful bad behavior. THAT is a social ill that needs to be fixed. I don't always agree with Hillary Clinton's ideas, but "It Takes a Village" correctly points out that it is not ONLY the parents who are responsible for children.

Yes, there are still going to be total sociopaths who can only be incarcerated or killed. But where the person isn't really a sociopath, just badly misguided or unguided, perhaps that can be helped.

In the final analysis, violence will spring up no matter what we do because we got to the top of the food chain by being relentless, violent, and persistent. It is in-bred. We are a savage breed. The moment we take our savagery away, we take away our chance of remaining at the top of the food chain. And then it is bye-bye, human race.

What we can hope to do is prevent things from reaching the point of fatal confrontations on a too-frequent basis. And the only way to do that is to resolve conflicts before they get out of hand, to catch nascent violence before it becomes another Columbine, Aurora, or Newtown. We have to get involved in assuring that bad kids aren't allowed to stay bad. We have to stop bullies. We have to teach kids that video games are GAMES, not reality. We have to teach kids that hurting others is not a good thing.

So let me ask this question: Are we our brother's keeper?

If your answer is no, then you are saying that it is OK to let mildly violent children go unscathed until they reach the boil-over point like Adam did. Forget the arguments about guns. They are a distraction. The argument is about societal involvement and societal responsibility.
 
Well, the NRA did not force the woman to buy semi-automatic guns. She did it on her own. The mother took up a hobby of gun collection and target shooting. The son was Psycho II.
There are several issues here: 1) Easy access to semi-automatic guns. 2)gun safety at home. 3) children's maturity and behavior patterns.
Need practical solutions. Need to keep guns away from the wackos. Not easy in America because of a gun culture. Whatever laws are enacted, please enforce them. US Government has a habit of selective enforcement of laws, not to alienate the vote bank.
 
He could have used a damned knife and fork and still killed a lot of kids and teachers.

No, he couldn't have.

Taking away guns from everyone is the wrong answer.

Have you actually been following this thread, or is this simply a knee-jerk reaction?

We cannot forget that headlines were shown on CNN on the "crawl" under the main screen a the same time as the shootings about a whack-job from China who went into a school and slashed over 20 children. So in a more repressive regime where guns were not available, tragedy struck anyway and at the same time.

You mean that incident where 20 children were slashed with a knife but none of them died? That incident? And you'd like us to consider that as a reason to not ban assault rifles?

Banning assault rifles wouldn't have made a difference because the Bushmaster wasn't an assault rifle. It didn't have full-auto mode available. It was just a glorified hunting rifle adapted from a military assault rifle.

The Bushmaster AR15 would be banned under the 1994 Federal Assault Weapons Ban Clinton passed. How is it that banning assault rifles wouldn't make a difference?
 
I have a question for those in this thread who are in favour of having a gun for self defence.

Have they ever been in a situation when they have had to use their gun to protect themselves, their family or their possessions? It will be interesting to see what people say.

I think there is a difference between having guns that you would use against other people and guns that you would use for sporting/hunting purposes.
 
I see in the paper today that Americans are panic buying guns, in particular the AR-15 assault rifle plus a pile of ammunition. This presumably ahead of a possible ban?

I think this demonstrates how the yanks care about gun control. They are all for it as long as it doesn't affect them.

Col
 
I have a question for those in this thread who are in favour of having a gun for self defence.

Have they ever been in a situation when they have had to use their gun to protect themselves, their family or their possessions? It will be interesting to see what people say.

I think there is a difference between having guns that you would use against other people and guns that you would use for sporting/hunting purposes.
You do not have to use or show a gun for self protection. If a criminal thinks a potential victim is armed, the criminal will move on to an easy victim. I have never seen a sign board in front of a house saying "This house has no guns." Every house owner wants a potential intruder to think that there may be guns in the hands of the home owner. In public, no one knows if a particular person is carrying a concealed weapon or not. Normally, in America, we are told not to argue with a stranger.
Believe me, there are a lot of criminals in America. A criminal, by definition, does not obey the laws. We do not live in fear either. Life goes on... People from all over the world would love to come to America.
 
You do not have to use or show a gun for self protection. If a criminal thinks a potential victim is armed, the criminal will move on to an easy victim. I have never seen a sign board in front of a house saying "This house has no guns." Every house owner wants a potential intruder to think that there may be guns in the hands of the home owner. In public, no one knows if a particular person is carrying a concealed weapon or not. Normally, in America, we are told not to argue with a stranger.
Believe me, there are a lot of criminals in America. A criminal, by definition, does not obey the laws. We do not live in fear either. Life goes on... People from all over the world would love to come to America.
So perhaps you don't actually need to have the gun - just a sign outside saying you have one and will use it:)
 
"A people should not fear their government; a government should fear their people"

is the typical "delusion of grandeur" sentiment that the gun enthusiast craves. No bearing on reality, just feeding an ego that feels impotent with a fantasy of power. Total hogwash.
 
Perhaps someone can answer this, an American preferably.

Throughout this and the other gun shooting thread Americans seem overly and extremely paranoid about an intruder in their home - hence the gun need.

I hardly give a thought to an intruder, our back door is always unlocked when we are home, except at night. In summer heat, all doors are open all day.

Is there a high possibility of being disturbed by an intruder at home in America?

I know asking Americans questions on this forum is pointless, but I thought I'd try.

Col
 
There are no statistics showing how many crimes are not committed because the criminal thought the victim may have a gun. Very rarely I hear from anyone whether they own a gun or not. In the suburbs, a high percentage of homeowners have guns (news reports). The vast majority are law abiding citizens. Vast majority of people who have mental illnesses are not killers. So, this is a complex issue. How can we keep guns away from wackos?? May not be easy, because a person can be arrested or detained only after he or she commits a crime. This is also the price of the liberty we enjoy.
 
I am as saddened by the school shootings as anyone else, but a lot of the talk of gun control is as usual pointing in the wrong direction. When we see what Adam Lanza did and conclude that gun control is the answer, we are looking through the wrong end of the microscope. We see the guns and demonize them. ADAM LANZA was the demon.
Excellent comment. This is really a complex societal issue.

  1. We are now a Nation of approximately 314 Million people. Statistically there will always be a few nut cases. Whether we are seeing more or less instances based on increased/decreased statistical probability, I don't know.
  2. We are now a Nation where social norms are not "enforced" by social pressure emanating from the local community. We are highly mobile. Many don't even know their neighbors. For the normal person, there is less "attachment" to the local community and less need to conform to the demands of society. For a person who has mental challenges, I can only surmise that they may feel even more "disassociated".
  3. "In 2010, 32,885 people died in motor vehicle traffic crashes in the United States" according to the US Department of Transportation. The point of mentioning this is that society, as a whole, will tolerate a certain downside as "normal", but when given a senseless tragic tragic event will thrash-out hysterically demanding an immediate "solution". Whether that solution is reasonable or not, becomes irrelevant. The "solution" presented by the case of Mr. Lanza, would seem to point towards improving the mental health system.
 
Is there a high possibility of being disturbed by an intruder at home in America?

No. In general, Americans are much more self-centered than citizens of other countries. There are many Americans that are dead-set against any kind of national healthcare plan because they feel that it is every person's individual responsibility to care for his/herself & family.

This same mentality applies to owning a gun. There are some pro-gun individuals who think the people that get shot are at least in some small way at fault as they were not prepared to defend them self.

It is a major focus on self-reliance. Can't afford college? Tough, go get 2 or 3 jobs so you can afford it. Your employer not treating you fairly? Tough, suck it up or go get a different job. Your old and broke? Tough, you should have been smarter with your finances when you were younger.

There is not really the sense of all of us being in it together. It is difficult viewpoint to wrap your head around if you aren't familiar with it.
 
Americans might not paranoid. I performed analysis for response time for 911 calls over a 3 year period as a graduate school project. Your use of "seem overly and extremely" might appear judgmental. Pre-concluded that American answers are pointless is interesting.

Sometimes, people tend to have the "Hindenburg disaster" syndrome. Banning hydrogen as a means of transportation due to one incident they over-react to.

What are realistic dangers to children being killed? Despite long-running campaigns to raise public awareness about pedestrian safety, nearly 400 kids age 15 and under are killed each year when they're hit by an automobile. An additional 200 children are killed by cars as non-pedestrians. In many of cases, there was beer or other drink involved.

I am glad you leave your door unlocked. Wish we Americans had that option. I had to buy a locking mail-box this year as over a dozen immediate neighbors had mail stolen and bank / identity theft cost them dearly. Or maybe buying a locking mail box to protect myself is being overly and extremely (fill in the blank).
 
Americans might not paranoid. I performed analysis for response time for 911 calls over a 3 year period as a graduate school project. Your use of "seem overly and extremely" might appear judgmental. Pre-concluded that American answers are pointless is interesting.

Not judgemental, just analysing what most Americans have said on this and the other shooting thread. Trust me, Americans here are paranoid about intruders. Read larson's answers about guns and you have the evidence.

Asking Americans here questions is pointless as they are usually ignored. When they deem to answer, the reply is usually interesting. I never said the answers were pointless, please try to read the post correctly, it's so tiresome having to explain things.

Col
 

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