Has NASA found (potentially) extraterrestrial life? (3 Viewers)

[Mike375]

The front ends used by the church seem to be quite corrupt through extensive reworking of the code.

And that is the reason why the atheism Vs supernatural discussion gets nowhere when discussed at the Christianity or Islam end of things.

 

[Brianwarnock]

so you're saying that people created God because life meant nothing to them otherwise, right?

does that mean that your son or daughter was conceived because otherwise, life would mean nothing to you?

Mankind has always needed something to worship/blame/hope for so it does invent gods and then religions, usually they are designed by man who want power and control over others, especially women.

Nature has designed all living things with the urge to procreate.

Brian

 

[Galaxiom]

And that is the reason why the atheism Vs supernatural discussion gets nowhere when discussed at the Christianity or Islam end of things.

Mike, I agree. That question asks to judge two faces of the same coin.

However I don't understand your position. To me Abraham was a delusional schitzophrenic yet you seem to think he was onto something.

Do not assume that atheism precludes spirituality.

Religion is Man's way of protecting himself from spritual experience.

 

[Alc]

Mankind has always needed something to worship/blame/hope for so it does invent gods and then religions, usually they are designed by man who want power and control over others, especially women.

Nature has designed all living things with the urge to procreate.

Brian

True. Also there's the explanation angle. Not knowing how/why things happen is unnerving to some and unacceptable to many. When we (i.e. people in general) knew less about everything, this was far more commonplace.

Why do eclipses occur? No idea about the Earth moving through space, etc. but some would have been desperate for an explanation.

Easiest answer: Say a magical being did it.
How did he do it?
In a way you can't possibly understand.
Why?
It's not for you to question and you woulnd't understand anyway.
What else will he do?
Luckily, we have this guy here who can hear him speak and will tell us if we just do what he wants.
Hey presto, you've got yourself a religion.

Fortunately or not, as we understand more, we tend to place less blind faith in things. People today seem far more willing to put their trust in the idea that some things just haven't been explained yet than in the fact everything can already be explained and it can all ultimately be traced back to magic. Yes, many people still attend churches, but it would seem rather implausible to claim that, as a percentage of the world population (especialy in developed countries), there are as many religious believers today as there were even 100 years ago.

 

[Rabbie]

Many parts of the Bible and Koran are very similar yet the people who believe in one or the other reject many of the conclusions in the other. For example Christians believe Jesus was the Son of God while Muslims believe he was a prophet preparing the way for Mohammed. Both beliefs are sincerely held but are clearly contradictory. They both can't be right but they both could be wrong. This suggests to me that religion is a manmade attempt to explain what is currently unknown.

 

[Mike375]

This suggests to me that religion is a manmade attempt to explain what is currently unknown.

100% spot on.

And atheists debating their cause on the basis of Jesus true/false are barking up the wrong tree. And Jesus "believers" are up that wrong tree

But I did just try and extend my faith to gravity means the universe creates itself from nothing. Strike me dead, what a leap of faith....in fact I could not make the leap.

 

[Mike375]

Mike, I have come over from the Atheist Foundation of Australia's forums, just to ask where one of our posters has claimed the moon landing is a hoax, apart from one poster "asking", by way of a joke).

I think your username on our forums may have been MikeM. A user by that name was expelled for circular reasoning, unsupportable claims, and general unpleasantness.

My second response to you. It seems like you are just a temporary blow hard. One post and you are destroyed.

I re registered on the Australian Atheist Foundation forum http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/

and completely open. I registered as AtheistPower and on my post (on the MIkeM thread) said I was MikeM. Invited you and others onto this forum.

But I was then banned by Personal Message I won't embarrass you by posting "davo" message. As you know he is only a very young bloke.

But as I said in my previous response....Welcome Aboard...obviously a little bit harder here because you can't delete, edit etc.

On this site, believers of a supernatural and atheists are all on the same level.

But we both know you picked that up and hence were good for only one post.....but your post was obviously to get discussion going.....Or was it just to show off on the Atheist forium, among the kids

You have no conviction. But I guess it is hard to have conviction on what you don't believe

 

[Mike375]

Mike, I agree. That question asks to judge two faces of the same coin.



Do not assume that atheism precludes spirituality.

It will for the true atheist.

But I have yet to meet a true atheist. Lots of agnostics.....and let's be honest here.....atheism and religion are both faith based....unless of course you have some science up your sleeve and so I would say most thinking people would be agnostic.

Of course there are people where "atheism" is a "statement". Like the fellow that posted above and reference to myself and the Atheist Fondation Australia. I am giving him another opportunity to get past one post

 

[Brianwarnock]

Mike
Could I ask you not to keep using the F.... word, it may be ok in Oz but is generally not used in mixed society in Britain and I would hate to see you banned again.

Brian

 

[Mike375]

Mike
Could I ask you not to keep using the F.... word, it may be ok in Oz but is generally not used in mixed society in Britain and I would hate to see you banned again.

Brian

Brian,

I think I got them. Used "destroyed" and "strike"

As in "you are destroyed" and "strike me dead"

One post and you are destroyed.

Strike me dead, what a leap of faith....in fact I could not make the leap.

How is that?

Mike

 

[Brianwarnock]

LOL

just don't want people taking offense rather than debating, you guys are causing us enough problems in Perth.

Brian

 

[Mike375]

LOL

just don't want people taking offense rather than debating, you guys are causing us enough problems in Perth.

Brian

We are just problem makers

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket...-new-life-to-test-cricket-20101218-191f2.html

Mike

 

[Lightwave]

I really don't think people are nearly as logical as they think they are.

I think we are incredibly influenced by the society in which we live and the way we are brought up to the point that we often don't register our bias at all.

I think it is human nature to try to strengthen your spirit to help you get through bad times and everyone generally wants to be strong or find ways of strengthening themselves.

I think the vast majority of people really do want to be special or to be treated with respect and in some way individually.

I think everyone has amazing amounts of imagination often unused.

I suggest that these factors could make people very susceptable to believe things they are told especially when it would appear to convey advantage and strength of character to them and their nearest and dearest for little cost.

 

[Galaxiom]

It will for the true atheist.

Mike you clearly misundestand the meaning of atheism. The opposite of atheisim is theism which is the belief in at least one deity. Spirtuality does not have to involve a deity at all.

Spirituality is about having concepts of existence beyond our immediate physical and intellectual relationships with our surroundings. I find it in music and love. I experience it in the appreciation of how I came to have this opportunity of life and how I can influence reality.

However, like so many of the best things in life, the church has attempted to assume total control of spiritual experience and corrupt its beauty.

They build huge resonant buildings where people sing together to experience the same spirituality I have when I sing with my friends. Then they preach that these feelings are originate with their deity and are only available through devotion to dogma of the church.

The reinvent love as something that is only pure in a very limited circumstance and define any deviation from that narrow definition as evil.

What they cannot control they denounce. Those churches that could not manage to take over song and dance denounced it. They protray sex as a base animal instinct and attach it to shame and guilt.

They redefine the beauty of nature and the fascinating intricacy that manifested it as a conscious construct by a remarkably anthropomorphic god and in doing so separate us from nature.

Theist philosophy is the quite the opposite of spirituality.

 

[Mike375]

[/color][/b]

Mike you clearly misundestand the meaning of atheism. The opposite of atheisim is theism which is the belief in at least one deity. Spirtuality does not have to involve a deity at all.

I was thinking of spirituality in terms of mental telepathy, which I believe in 100% but atheist will not agree.

In short, we have "spirituality" on a different page. However, I can see from your perspective of "spirituality" there is no conflict with atheism and I would agree.

But in general I think atheism is more than just 'theism" with an "a' added

 

[Galaxiom]

I was thinking of spirituality in terms of mental telepathy, which I believe in 100% but atheist will not agree.

You still don't understand. There is nothing about telepathic communication that requires belief in a deity. It is possible that such a phenomonon does exist but as yet the mechanism involved has not been found.

Do you think God sits there at the exchange plugging leads when connections are requested?

 

[Mike375]

You still don't understand. There is nothing about telepathic communication that requires belief in a deity. It is possible that such a phenomonon does exist but as yet the mechanism involved has not been found.

Do you think God sits there at the exchange plugging leads when connections are requested?

Agree completely. However, it is laughed at by atheists and with the standard "do you have documented proof etc. and etc."

God is not sitting there at the exchange. But God is a specific god who is unlikely to exist. Actually the vast majority of atheists I have met are really agnostic and their atheism is only at the God level = Christianity, Bible, Islam and so on.

 

[Rabbie]

Agree completely. However, it is laughed at by atheists and with the standard "do you have documented proof etc. and etc."

My scepticism about telepathy has nothing to do with my lack of belief in any deity. I have found that many of my agnostic and religous friends also do not think that telepathy exists so I fail to understand the point you are making. Perhaps you could explain it more fully?

When I see a convincing demonstration of telepathy I will check it out.

 

[Galaxiom]

I was going to make a similar point to Rabbie yesterday but I couldn't be bothered. Mike chastised us for what he perceives as confusing a belief in the existence of a deity with the accptance of Jesus and Mohammed but can't seem to separate issues such as telepathy from the deity debate.

I think Mike used the term Atheist to mean "anyone who disagrees with me about anything".

 

[Mike375]

I only mentioned telepathy when Galaxiom spoke about spirituality.

But for a lot of people that experience it, telepathy (or whatever you want to call it) will be seen as a manifestation that there is "something out there" and so it does have a connection with atheism/theism.

Personally, I am a 100% believer that telepathy happens and the degree to which it happens varies greatly from person to person.