I just HATE Access 2007

[Atomic Shrimp]

I've been using Office 2007 every day for over a year now and I still really dislike it. The ribbon menus are just a flawed concept, IMO - they take up a massive wedge of screen real estate, I *still* can't find my way around them and I find the graphical icons pointless and patronising. If I want to create a table, I really don't need a picture to remind me what a table might look like.

I realise they can be hidden to free up space, but that's a nuisance - and I'm not allowed to install the add-in that gives me pre-2007-style menus back, as it's a work PC.

I consider myself quite adaptable to new systems and quite an intuitive learner - but Office 2007 is still uncomfortable for me, a year in.

 

[Lightwave]

Ok so in a straw poll of the wisdom of the masses (or should that be the wisdom of the elites) there is a not inconsequencial discontent with 2007.

Is there anyone who is familiar with 2003 , 2007 and 2010?

Might it be a good idea to jump 2007 and go straight to 2010?

( It looks like next development of access may be targeted for 2015 - maybe this is a sign of longer development times as a realisation that over quick development can be counter productive eg Vista ) ******** this last line later indicated as incorrect but kept to tie in with thread..

 

[Avelino]

Use very access 2007
I did not see many differences in access 2010.
The ribbons for the 2010 access became even more powerful
The ribbon is a reality and it will not change
The software companies adopt the model ribbon (FireFox, Autocad 2010 and Solidworks, etc.)
Paint and WordPad in Windows 7 is already with ribbon
Outlook 2010 to ribbon
Do you think the game will change?
I'm from Brazil and the resistance here is also high among developers
Users are taking it very well the ribbons - I care about is what users think.
The biggest problem was that Microsoft did not create a wizard that
The wizard 2010 is ridiculous
I managed to narrow the rejection here because I created a wizard fully developed in access - I think this is the first in the world dedicated to access
soon be hired professional to translate the English


see this forum a guy from my assistant

http://comunidade.itlab.com.br/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/273606921/m/120108242

success

 

[Banana]

Is there anyone who is familiar with 2003 , 2007 and 2010?

Might it be a good idea to jump 2007 and go straight to 2010?

I am, and I've already posted a bit in my earlier posts in this thread. While I didn't explicit say this, yes, I do think it's quite worthwhile to go directly 2010, despite the ribbon as this time there's actual enhancements that makes it appealing. Triggers for the tables is a example.

Another reason for going to 2010 is because it now supports 64-bitness natively so eventually we'll have to move forward.

It looks like next development of access may be targeted for 2015 - maybe this is a sign of longer development times as a realisation that over quick development can be counter productive eg Vista

I'm not sure where you got that idea... Was that because of talk about Access 15 & SQL Server over at the Access team blog? If so, 15 isn't in reference to year of release but rather the version number. Access 2010 is version 14. 2007 is 12. 2003 is 11 and 97 is 8.

 

[Lightwave]

Thanks Banana yes that was exactly where I got the reference to 15.

A case of user misinterpretation. (how unusual???)

 

[georgedwilkinson]

Or you could just use the very convenient zoom slider at the bottom of the window.

Amazing...I didn't even know this existed. It is a little too sensitive, though...but very workable.

One click zoom to page width is there on the View Ribbon.

And is definitely not an improvement over older versions.

Is your monitor really so small that you can't handle including the margins?

No.
1. This was an example that I recall being more difficult on 2007 than older versions, as requested by Bob.
2. I use many computers and I use Access, Word, and Excel on almost every one of those computers. Most of the time, I use the computers remotely. So yes, I have problems seeing all the text and I don't want to fiddle around with a remote mouse setup to do something so simple.

I would recommend you upgrade your monitor.

Thanks for the recommend. However, that won't help. And, it was just a single example. I don't have 2003 or older on an easy to access computer to do this type of comparison with.

 

[georgedwilkinson]

I've been using Office 2007 every day for over a year now and I still really dislike it. The ribbon menus are just a flawed concept, IMO - they take up a massive wedge of screen real estate, I *still* can't find my way around them and I find the graphical icons pointless and patronising. If I want to create a table, I really don't need a picture to remind me what a table might look like.

I realise they can be hidden to free up space, but that's a nuisance - and I'm not allowed to install the add-in that gives me pre-2007-style menus back, as it's a work PC.

I consider myself quite adaptable to new systems and quite an intuitive learner - but Office 2007 is still uncomfortable for me, a year in.

I gotta go with the shrimp on this one. There is really nothing compelling about any 2007 "enhancement" that is superior to 2003 to the point of compensating for the backwardness of the 2007 features (fiddling around with mouse positions for example). I have been using Office 2007 since 2007 and I still don't like it.

You shouldn't have to work harder to use your computer...the computer is supposed to make it EASIER to do your job.

 

[Banana]

One more example. I've had few times where I made wrong clicks because too many icons look too similar at a glance. So, I would click on "Table" when I meant "Table Design" or "Query Wizard" when I meant "Query".

Yes, the icons has some thing in it to differentiate, but it's not quite the same as reading a menu and accurately selecting the correct option.

A small solace is that I can just re-design the ribbon to my liking and toss out the crap that I will never want to use (e.g. "Table" and "Query Wizard"). But as George pointed out- you shouldn't have to work harder, and certainly not to point that you have to change the defaults. Good defaults are what make the applications work.

 

[georgedwilkinson]

One more example. I've had few times where I made wrong clicks because too many icons look too similar at a glance. So, I would click on "Table" when I meant "Table Design" or "Query Wizard" when I meant "Query".

Yes, I've done that and I totally hate it. But I didn't include it in my reasons for saying that 2007 kills productivity because I thought it was just my novice user level. But now that you mention it, I shouldn't be this bad of a novice after 2+ years using the software.

Yes, I could learn to be a super-user of Office 2007 programs so I could get up to the same level of proficiency I'm at on earlier versions. But why? There is nothing you can do with 2007 that you cannot do with the earlier versions and the earlier versions are easier to use.

Remember this simple formula:
computer = make things EASIER to do

 

[Banana]

A bit of an aside but I thought it important enough just so we're not beating up the wrong guys here-

Remember that ribbon itself is the idea of Office, not Access. It's quite likely that Access team had no choice/say because for better or worse, Access's cans has been tied to the Office's car, so if Office people say we must have ribbons, well, Access must have it.

Doesn't make it any more of a good idea, though.

 

[Atomic Shrimp]

A bit of an aside but I thought it important enough just so we're not beating up the wrong guys here-

Remember that ribbon itself is the idea of Office, not Access. It's quite likely that Access team had no choice/say because for better or worse, Access's cans has been tied to the Office's car, so if Office people say we must have ribbons, well, Access must have it.

Doesn't make it any more of a good idea, though.

The odd thing is the Outlook 2007 seems to have escaped - it still has the traditional menu and toolbars, at least in the main screen.

 

[boblarson]

The odd thing is the Outlook 2007 seems to have escaped - it still has the traditional menu and toolbars, at least in the main screen.

That's only because they didn't have time to fully implement due to the certain timelines. It is now fully implemented in Outlook 2010 AND in Paint and I believe in WordPad as well.

 

[Banana]

Atomic Shrimp-

Really? Fascinating.

I haven't used Outlook for so long so I didn't even know. FWIW, you won't see ribbons in SSMS or VS as well. I've used VS 2010 beta and there's definitely not ribbon to be had in there. To me that speaks volume (I dare you to picture the response of SQL Server MVPs & aficionados when they see ribbons in their precious SSMS) I'm not suggesting that the cluttered mess in 2003 was the pinnacle of UI design rather that it didn't really necessitate a new UI to solve the problems 2003 had.

Anyway, I decided to make lemons out of lemonade and here is my quick mock-up. There's probably going to be more work to be done before it's going to be usable as a replacement for serious development task but here's a looky-see:

Most of buttons are menu-like, and I try to follow the same rules that's standard in web development: It should take two clicks to get where you need to be. Technically, the tab at top ought to count, totaling 3 clicks. At least it won't be always be 3 clicks- I'll see what I can do about that, and mouse movement should be now more linear.

PS Forgot to point out that in case of Query/Form/Report/VBA, you can click on the icon itself and go directly to the design view without need to bring up the menu which I put in anyway to choose 'blank form' or 'form wizard', something which I do occasionally use now & then but doesn't really justify a space on the ribbon.

 

[Banana]

After some tweaking, I settled on this approach:

I discarded the Home/Create/External Data/Database Tools in favor of a custom "Develop" tab, and left all contextual tabs unchanged. This way there is only one "fixed tab" at all time as well 1-3 contextual tabs. I used splitButtons to prominently show most common tasks and relegate the less common to the dropdown menus. Hopefully, this will help reduce the need to search/click.

This primarily fixes three biggest annoyances:

1) having to change the tabs to click on the right button.
2) being overwhelmed with so many similar buttons that you click wrong one.
3) clicking between tabs hunting for a certain button.

Updated screenshot:

PS: The duplicate "Datasheet" has been fixed already.

For those who do not like ribbons, give this a try and if it helps any.

<customUI xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2006/01/customui">
	<!-- Do not start from scratch; suppress built-ins instead. -->
	<ribbon startFromScratch="false">
		<tabs>
			<!-- Built-in tabs -->
			<tab idMso="TabPrintPreviewAccess" label="Original Print Preview" visible="false"></tab>
			<tab idMso="TabHomeAccess" label="Original Home" visible="false"></tab>
			<tab idMso="TabCreate" label="Original Create" visible="false"></tab>
			<tab idMso="TabExternalData" label="Original External Data" visible="false"></tab>
			<tab idMso="TabDatabaseTools" label="Original Database Tools" visible="false"></tab>
			<!-- Rarely use Source Control, not worth customizing -->
			<tab idMso="TabSourceControl" label="Original Source Control" visible="true"></tab>
			<!-- Normally this may be desirable to disable AddIns tab but to avoid confusion I'm leaving this alone for now. -->
			<tab idMso="TabAddIns" label="AddIns" visible="true"></tab>
			<!-- Custom tabs -->
			<tab id="DevelopTab" label="Develop">
				<group id="ViewGroup" label="View or Run">
					<splitButton idMso="ViewsModeMenu" size="large">
					</splitButton>
					<button idMso="QueryRunQuery" size="large" />
				</group>
				<group id="EditGroup" label="Edit">
					<box id="EditBox1" boxStyle="horizontal">
						<button idMso="Cut" />
						<button idMso="Copy" />
						<splitButton id="PasteIt">
							<button idMso="Paste" />
							<menu id="PasteMenu">
								<button idMso="Paste" />
								<button idMso="PasteSpecialDialog" />
								<button idMso="PasteAppend" />
							</menu>
						</splitButton>
					</box>
					<box id="EditBox2" boxStyle="horizontal">
						<gallery idMso="Undo" />
						<gallery idMso="Redo" />
					</box>
					<box id="EditBox3" boxStyle="horizontal">
						<comboBox idMso="FormattingFormat" />
						<control idMso="FormatPainter" />
					</box>
				</group>
				<group id="TableGroup" label="Tables and Relationship">
					<splitButton id="CreateTableSplitButton" size="large">
						<button idMso="CreateTableInDesignView" />
						<menu id="CreateTableMenu">
							<button idMso="CreateTableInDesignView" />
							<button idMso="CreateTable" />
							<gallery idMso="CreateTableTemplatesGallery" />
							<gallery idMso="CreateTableUsingSharePointListsGallery" />
						</menu>
					</splitButton>
					<splitButton id="DatabaseRelationshipsSplitButton" size="large">
						<button idMso="DatabaseRelationships" />
						<menu id="RelationshipsMenu">
							<button idMso="DatabaseRelationships" />
							<toggleButton idMso="DatabaseObjectDependencies" />
						</menu>
					</splitButton>
				</group>
				<group id="ExternalDataGroup" label="External Data">
					<menu id="ImportMenu" label="Import or Link" imageMso="ImportMoreMenu" size="large">
						<menuSeparator id="ImportLink" title="Link tables" />
						<button idMso="FileServerLinkTables" />
						<menuSeparator id="ImportMicrosoft" title="Import from Office" />
						<button idMso="ImportAccess" />
						<button idMso="ImportExcel" />
						<button idMso="ImportOutlook" />
						<button idMso="ImportSharePointList" />
						<menuSeparator id="ImportOdbc" title="Import from ODBC" />
						<button idMso="ImportOdbcDatabase" />
						<menuSeparator id="ImportFlatFile" title="Import from flat files" />
						<button idMso="ImportTextFile" />
						<button idMso="ImportHtmlDocument" />
						<button idMso="ImportXmlFile" />
						<button idMso="ImportSavedImports" />
						<menuSeparator id="ImportISAM" title="Import from ISAM" />
						<button idMso="ImportDBase" />
						<button idMso="ImportParadox" />
						<button idMso="ImportLotus" />
					</menu>
					<menu id="ExportMenu" label="Export" imageMso="ExportMoreMenu" size="large">
						<menuSeparator id="ExportMicrosoft" title="Export to Office" />
						<button idMso="ExportAccess" />
						<button idMso="ExportExcel" />
						<button idMso="ExportWord" />
						<button idMso="ExportSharePointList" />
						<menuSeparator id="ExportOdbc" title="Export to ODBC" />
						<button idMso="ExportOdbcDatabase" />
						<menuSeparator id="ExportFlatFiles" title="Export to flat files" />
						<button idMso="ExportTextFile" />
						<button idMso="ExportHtmlDocument" />
						<button idMso="ExportXmlFile" />
						<button idMso="ExportSavedExports" />
						<menuSeparator id="ExportISAM" title="Export to ISAM" />
						<button idMso="ExportDBase" />
						<button idMso="ExportParadox" />
						<button idMso="ExportLotus" />
						<menuSeparator id="ExportSnapshot" title="Export as Snapshot" />
						<button idMso="ExportSnapshot" />
						<button idMso="PublishToPdfOrEdoc" />
					</menu>
					<splitButton id="LinkedTableSplitButton" size="large">
						<button idMso="DatabaseLinedTableManager" />
						<menu id="LinkedTableMenu">
							<button idMso="DatabaseLinedTableManager" />
							<button idMso="DatabaseAccessBackEnd" label="Split Database" />
							<button idMso="DatabaseSqlServer" label="Upsize Database" />
						</menu>
					</splitButton>
				</group>
				<group id="ObjectGroup" label="Create Objects">
					<splitButton id="QuerySplitButton" size="large">
						<button idMso="CreateQueryInDesignView" />
						<menu id="QueryMenu">
							<button idMso="CreateQueryInDesignView" />
							<button idMso="CreateQueryFromWizard" />
						</menu>
					</splitButton>
					<splitButton id="FormSplitButton" size="large">
						<button idMso="CreateFormInDesignView" />
						<menu id="FormMenu">
							<button idMso="CreateFormInDesignView" />
							<button idMso="CreateFormBlankForm" />
							<button idMso="CreateForm" />
							<button idMso="CreateFormSplitForm" />
							<button idMso="CreateFormWithMultipleItems" />
							<button idMso="CreateFormPivotChart" />
							<menuSeparator id="SwitchBoardSeparator" title="Switchboard" />
							<button idMso="DatabaseSwitchboardManager" />
							<button idMso="BusinessFormWizard" />
						</menu>
					</splitButton>
					<splitButton id="ReportSplitButton" size="large">
						<button idMso="CreateReportInDesignView" />
						<menu id="ReportMenu">
							<button idMso="CreateReportInDesignView" />
							<button idMso="CreateReportBlankReport" />
							<button idMso="CreateReport" />
							<button idMso="CreateLabels" />
							<button idMso="CreateReportFromWizard" />
						</menu>
					</splitButton>
					<splitButton id="MacroSplitButton" size="large">
						<button idMso="CreateMacro" />
						<menu id="MacroMenu">
							<button idMso="CreateMacro" />
							<button idMso="CreateShortcutMenuFromMacro" />
						</menu>
					</splitButton>
					<splitButton id="VBASplitButton" size="large">
						<button idMso="VisualBasic" />
						<menu id="VBAMenu">
							<button idMso="VisualBasic" />
							<button idMso="CreateModule" />
							<button idMso="CreateClassModule" />
							<menuSeparator id="ConvertMacroSeparator" title="Convert Macros to VBA" />
							<button idMso="MacroConvertMacrosToVisualBasic" />
						</menu>
					</splitButton>
				</group>
				<group id="AdministerGroup" label="Administer">
					<splitButton id="AdministerSplitButton" size="large">
						<button idMso="FileCompactAndRepairDatabase" />
						<menu id="AdministerMenu">
							<button idMso="FileCompactAndRepairDatabase" />
							<button idMso="FileBackupDatabase" />
							<button idMso="DatabaseCopyDatabaseFile" />
							<menuSeparator id="ConvertFileSeparator" title="Convert to different version" />
							<button idMso="FileSaveAsAccess2007" />
							<button idMso="FileSaveAsAccess2002_2003" />
							<button idMso="FileSaveAsAccess2000" />
							<menuSeparator id="SecuritySeparator" title="Secure the file" />
							<button idMso="SetDatabasePassword" />
							<button idMso="DatabaseMakeMdeFile" />
							<button idMso="FilePackageAndSign" />
							<menuSeparator id="AnalyzeSeparator" title="Analyze/Document" />
							<button idMso="DatabaseAnalyzeTable" />
							<button idMso="DatabaseAnalyzePerformance" />
							<button idMso="DatabaseDocumenter" />
							<menuSeparator id="CustomizeSeparator" title="Customize" />
							<button idMso="QuickAccessToolbarCustomization" />
							<menu idMso="AddInsMenu"></menu>
							<button idMso="ComAddInsDialog" />
						</menu>	
					</splitButton>				
				</group>
			</tab>
		</tabs>
		<contextualTabs>
		<!-- Built-in contextual tabs will be used -->
		<!-- To suppress the built-in tabs, change visible to false, rename the label to "Original <whatever>" then add new tab with a new id, same label -->
		<!-- The ordering of tabSets are roughly Tables, Queries, Forms, Reports, Macros -->
			<tabSet idMso="TabSetTableToolsDesign">
				<tab idMso="TabTableToolsDesignAccess" label="Design" visible="true"></tab>
			</tabSet>
			<tabSet idMso="TabSetTableToolsDatasheet">
				<tab idMso="TabTableToolsDatasheet" label="Datasheet" visible="true"></tab>
			</tabSet>
			<tabSet idMso="TabSetRelationshipTools">
				<tab idMso="TabRelationshipToolsDesign" label="Design" visible="true"></tab>
			</tabSet>
			<tabSet idMso="TabSetQueryTools">
				<tab idMso="TabQueryToolsDesign" label="Design" visible="true"></tab>
			</tabSet>
			<tabSet idMso="TabSetFormTools">
				<tab idMso="TabFormToolsDesign" label="Design" visible="true"></tab>
				<tab idMso="TabFormToolsLayout" label="Arrange" visible="true"></tab>
			</tabSet>
			<tabSet idMso="TabSetFormToolsLayout">
				<tab idMso="TabFormToolsFormatting" label="Format" visible="true"></tab>
				<tab idMso="TabControlLayout" label="Arrange" visible="true"></tab>
			</tabSet>
			<tabSet idMso="TabSetPivotTableAccess">
				<tab idMso="TabPivotTableDesign" label="Design" visible="true"></tab>
			</tabSet>
			<tabSet idMso="TabSetPivotChartAccess">
				<tab idMso="TabPivotChartDesign" label="Design" visible="true"></tab>
			</tabSet>
			<tabSet idMso="TabSetReportTools">
				<tab idMso="TabReportToolsDesign" label="Design" visible="true"></tab>
				<tab idMso="TabReportToolsAlignment" label="Arrange" visible="true"></tab>
				<tab idMso="TabReportToolsPageSetupDesign" label="Page Setup" visible="true"></tab>
			</tabSet>
			<tabSet idMso="TabSetReportToolsLayout">
				<tab idMso="TabReportToolsFormatting" label="Format" visible="true"></tab>
				<tab idMso="TabReportToolsLayout" label="Layout" visible="true"></tab>
				<tab idMso="TabReportToolsPageSetupLayout" label="Page Setup" visible="true"></tab>
			</tabSet>
			<tabSet idMso="TabSetMacroTools">
				<tab idMso="TabMacroToolsDesign" label="Design" visible="true"></tab>
			</tabSet>
		</contextualTabs>
	</ribbon>
</customUI>

Instructions on loading custom ribbons

Hope this helps someone....

 

[sportsguy]

Banana!

you have answered a question I have not had time to explorer, due to work and the learning curve!
So according to the link you provided, i paste the XML code right in the memo tab of the USysRibbons table? is that correct?

I don't hate Access 2007 as I did when i cut over cold turkey. . . BUT, i think that microsoft is having a hard time figuring out how to make money with Office, when there are open source competitors. I think that Office 2007's improvements should have been less about the ribbon and more about 64 bit computing. That upgrade would have put some interesting pressure on Vista and Windows 7 64 bit upgrade paths for corporate users, like myself toi drive system OS sales, and then integrate it with XML. . .. but then I am just a stupid user i guess. . .

However, microsoft as a public company has alot of people owning their stock, and they have to keep growing the company, even though alot of its individual pc products are near the end of their refinement cycles are far as improving user interface and experience for above average or faster upgrade/replacement cycle purchases.

sportsguy

 

[Lightwave]

Good point Sports Guy

With a product at what point do you go - actually its pretty good as it is?

 

[sportsguy]

COOL!

I got it to work very easily. . . if I stop long enough to actually read the directions!

Of course, now the test database isn't working properly on my home computer, with Vista x64 and Office 2007 versus my work laptop XP and Access 2007. . .

but its a huge step in getting the ribbons useful.

now the million dollar question is how to get the ribbon in to an access created new database? or does one have to keep a customized blank database hanging around to copy and paste / repair and compact into an accdb for ready set up use?


sportsguy

 

[Banana]

Glad you got it to work for you, sportsguy.

I keep a blank template anyway because I don't want to remember to turn off AutoCorrupt and there's no way to make it the default, so a blank template database it is.

PS What isn't working properly on your Vista x64?

 

[sportsguy]

Its working fine. . . read my avatar comment!

But what your toolbar is missing is a print box button, as I ran a report, and printing requires a right click on the actual report to select the print option. .

Other than that, its almost perfect! (almost because of the lack of print button!)

now if i can only figure out how to do this in excel. . . . then my company will be greatly in debted to me, and hopefully won't lay me off!

sportsguy

 

[sportsguy]

That is the one step that has an extra step of going to the HOME button first, for an extra click, Bob Larson please note, when the print button should be on the ribbon. . .

or is that NOT an option??

geez, i wish i knew more about 2007

sportguy