Immigration

[dan-cat]

My heart is annoyed at the hypocrisy of a people whose nation is a colonial state whose every inch was stolen from other people, who say stay at home and make your own land better, like the original immigrants? like the mass of Irish fleeing the potato famine?

Some would argue that this is different because the original immigrants were English-speaking and thus justified in the act of migration. Unfortunately this 'superior' culture virtually wiped out the original American population in the process. Just like the Spanish did south of the border. Then we have the audacity to describe other people as an 'infestation'. If Mexicans are an infestation what the hell does that make us?

 

[dan-cat]

Well it would make a refreshing change from all the lies currently issued by your state department

Come, come surely you can bring yourself to agree with me on one point.

 

[Pat Hartman]

All I can say about the last few threads is you guys keep loosing sight of the illegal entry aspect of the issue. Why people emigrate is not an issue here. They emigrate because they hope to find a better life. Various waves of immigrants have come here over the years for various reasons - they want religious freedom, they want to escape a totalitarian regime, they want economic opportunity, and the list goes on. I would like nothing better than to make life better for every downtrodden individual in the entire world. Can I do that? Is it even a reasonable expectation? Should it be the goal of my country? Should my country be expected by the rest of the world to accept everyone else’s problems? Should we destroy our middle class to accomplish that? Why should some group of people choose themselves for preferential treatment by breaking into my country?

Do I feel sorry for them? Yes. Should they be allowed to stay? No. Is it reasonable to expel them en mass? Of course not. Do I have an alternative solution? Let them go home the way they came, one at a time as their jobs dry up. Let them apply for citizenship as others before them have. They should not get priority just because they snuck in under the fence. In fact if they go home en mass, marching across the border, carrying Mexican flags, it would scare the bejesus out of the Mexican government because they would see their biggest single form of foreign exchange drying up before their eyes.

 

[Brianwarnock]

All I can say about the last few threads is you guys keep loosing sight of the illegal entry aspect of the issue. .

I was not loosing sight of it , I was ignoring it as an argument against the peasants, however please use it as an argument against those encouraging them to enter your country. Maybe any solution should be paid for by those organisations. I'm sure that your concern regarding these people is not just a legal one as i doubt you would be pleased for the law to be changed to allow any and every Tom Dick or Harry to enter your country.

I believe that your main objections are as follows

1 You object to firms being able to hire these people for a pittance that no American could possibly survive on.

2 You object to the huge numbers that are altering the American culture. No country no matter how large , generous, or welcoming can absorb too many people in a short time without its culture being affected. You need time to Americanise them, and as you quite rightly say, and have on a previous thread where I agreed with you, your people should be Americans pure and simple, not hyphenated with another nationality.


" Hello I'm an English-Creole-Italian- American, this is my wife she is an Irish-Costa Rican-Mexican- American, which makes our kids " ?? well you work it out.

Brian

 

[jsanders]

I was not loosing sight of it , I was ignoring it as an argument against the peasants, however please use it as an argument against those encouraging them to enter your country. Maybe any solution should be paid for by those organisations. I'm sure that your concern regarding these people is not just a legal one as i doubt you would be pleased for the law to be changed to allow any and every Tom Dick or Harry to enter your country.

I believe that your main objections are as follows

1 You object to firms being able to hire these people for a pittance that no American could possibly survive on.

2 You object to the huge numbers that are altering the American culture. No country no matter how large , generous, or welcoming can absorb too many people in a short time without its culture being affected. You need time to Americanise them, and as you quite rightly say, and have on a previous thread where I agreed with you, your people should be Americans pure and simple, not hyphenated with another nationality.


" Hello I'm an English-Creole-Italian- American, this is my wife she is an Irish-Costa Rican-Mexican- American, which makes our kids " ?? well you work it out.

Brian

Heine’s 57

 

[jsanders]

Up until this post you might have gotten the impressions that I don’t believe the South of the Border folks should be here at all.

This is simply not true. If my daughter was not getting food, medicine, or education, I would go wherever and do whatever it took.

I rave, not because they are coming, but that the system is promoting a new peasant class in America that threatens to bring her to her knees. In every way we are creating a divide that is growing wider by the year. If this trend continues we will not recognize our own country, and the young people growing up will never understand the greatness that was once, America.

When we broke away from Great Britain is was to end living in a monarchy that made it impossible to grow above a certain class, no mater what your capabilities. Later, as the industrial revolution grew American industrialist created the fastest growing economy in the world usurping Great Britain, Germany and Japan in industrial output.

But at a cost.

The division of wealth was then the greatest ever in American history, leaving the Italian, Irish, and Chinese immigrants dying in the mills, mines, and rail roads. After the defeat of the steel mill workers union at the Homestead Steel Works plant in Pittsburgh PA (the largest owned by Carnegie) it took 40 years before the next union appeared in the steel industry, and the workers that participated in the strike were black balled and never worked in steel again.

We are seeing a return to this mantra and we will be distraught if this ends the great middle class, as it evolved from those violent and destitute times.

So when the Spanish (American Spanish) come here and refuse to learn English, nay are encouraged by their own people to retain their culture and language, they are aiding the ultra rich in capturing yet another portion of the middle class and making it part of the working poor.

It seams we are not content with transferring all those middle class American factory jobs to China, we need to transfer as many more of the rest of them to the working poor illegal immigrants.

But hey why should I care? My daughter and all of her cousins are either in collage or heading that way. Certainly they will do well.

Huh. Maybe they can get their homes cleaned by a working poor Spanish mom with 2 kids.

 

[Pat Hartman]

But hey why should I care? My daughter and all of her cousins are either in collage or heading that way. Certainly they will do well.

I wouldn't bet on it. Unless they are headed into a field where they actually need to "touch" something such as your car's engine or your hamburger, there won't be any high-paying jobs left for them to take. Not only is the middle class being squeezed from the bottom, they are also being squeezed from the top by the H1b and L1 visa holders while the middle is being sucked out through outsourcing.

Maybe "We the People" will make our displeasure known come November. Incumbents beware!!

 

[FoFa]

OK, what about this (remember nothing is 100%) but a lot of the (non politically blessed with a visa) come basically from squalor in their home country. So they live in poor conditions (by the "normal" native standards) either by many familys to a house, or many to a room, etc. This is not a bother to them. Now the pittance they make in this country is a vast amount compared to what they can make in their country. They almost all send money home to family. So could it not be said they are undercutting the local population by keeping jobs salary low, while not paying taxes, and still benefiting from the tax payers of that country? Those who move families also, have their kids in school (usually at tax payers expense) and still undercutting the job market for the local people. Yet on one hand you have give them credit for trying to help their family. So who's fault is it?
Not big business (I never said they did not benefit), but the thousands of small businesses that employ them? Should we put thousands of small businesses out of business by stripping them of the labor force that keeps them solvent? I don't see and easy answer to this problem. Might as well turn a blind eye like the last hundred years

 

[Pat Hartman]

The only reason that small businesses would have a problem is that some of them would continue to break the law and hire illegals so they could undercut their competitors. That would become less of a problem if we tighten up enforcement.

 

[jsanders]

The only reason that small businesses would have a problem is that some of them would continue to break the law and hire illegals so they could undercut their competitors. That would become less of a problem if we tighten up enforcement.

Some people are never going to admit that the middle class is disappearing. Unfortunately that dominated by the republican older voters.

By the time the young people get to vote it will be too late, and they won’t know any better.

 

[Pat Hartman]

I wouldn't blame this on just the Republicans. The Democrats had a big hand in it also. The outsourcing/importing issue picked up serious speed under Clinton. With all the really bad trade agreements the the presure from big business to increase the H1b visa limits I'm not sure how we can stem the tide.

 

[FoFa]

Of course with any current events, we have the required Email stuff being circulated.

 

[jsanders]

Of course with any current events, we have the required Email stuff being circulated.

Thank yopu Fofa

He has always been one of my heros.

 

[ColinEssex]

I've been re-reading through this thread and have a couple of thoughts.

Firstly this is not a knock at the USA. . . . . ok? Its just an observation.

Now, the USA has an illegal immigrant problem. What I can't understand is this - the US government is in the process of converting a whole country's dictatorship to a democracy - they are also concerned about another country creating a nuclear weapon. In fact the last concern is so great that oil prices have rocketed in the last week or so for fear of a US air strike.

Anyway, if the US government is able to spend hundreds of billions on the above. Why can't they spend money and sort out their home issues like immigration?, because from what I've read here, this is a worsening situation.

Or to put it another way - is there anything being done to sort this - or is there likely to be too much resistance from US big businesses who fund the party in power - therefore, just token things are done to make it look like they (government) are addressing it. Aiding illegals into the UK is big business, there must be many such illegal organisations aiding the US illegal people over the border.

Just to get our Ken going - in fact I know there is because the A Team broke up one such organisation mis-treating Mexican illegal immigrants - so it must be true

Incidentally, most "western" countries have an illegal immigrant problem, its not just a US issue.
Australia has "boat people" from Hong Kong / Vietnam etc. Europe has the former "Iron Curtain" country and Mid Asian immigrants. In fact, they try to sneak onto the channel tunnel freight trains or hide in the back of lorries (trucks) to get in the UK. Or they try to get over the North Sea or the channel in flimsy boats.

Col

 

[Len Boorman]

In fact the last concern is so great that oil prices have rocketed in the last week or so for fear of a US air strike.

Col

Done my oil shares a power of good

but that is just one way of looking at the situation.

Now I believe I have said this earlier or on another thread.

Until Governments govern for the good of the country and not just to please people so that they stay employed a lot of these problems will not be solved.

I have offered to become the UK Sole Head Of State for a period of 5 years. During this time I cannot promise to solve everything however unpleasant but necessary changes will be made.

Immigration, Law and Order, Health will be major areas tackled.

The EU also but that should not take long at all. Brussels just need to be told a few things.

Len

 

[ColinEssex]

Immigration, Law and Order, Health will be major areas tackled.

I could help on the health issue. Working in the NHS, I know very well where the millions are wasted patient care doesn't enter into it

Col

 

[Len Boorman]

I could help on the health issue. Working in the NHS, I know very well where the millions are wasted patient care doesn't enter into it

Col

Fancy a job in the Cabinet ?.

L

 

[ColinEssex]

Fancy a job in the Cabinet ?.

L

On £250,000 a year?. . . . . . . .I'll think about it


ok then

 

[KenHigg]

If I may shift focus of the thread a little...

1. At what level of income per year would/could a household consider private health care instead of the NHS?

2. Do some 'Better' companies offer private health care benefits or do most all of them make you go with the NHS?

 

[Rich]

I could help on the health issue. Working in the NHS, I know very well where the millions are wasted patient care doesn't enter into it

Col

Is it true then that some GP's are now on £250,000 a year ?