Is Englang on the verge of full socialism/communism

[redneckgeek]

Why is it that if you provide (not necessarily for free) basic necessities of life for poor people, that is somehow going to remove their motivation to work, but if you provide gazillions of dollars of tax breaks to wealthy corporations, that DOESN'T remove their motivation to work?

The difference between the two is that a single person on welfare has no motivation to go to work. Actually, going to work for minimum wage will actually decrease your benefits too much to make it worthwhile. Welfare was created to trap you into it. Once you're dependant on the government, you'll continue to vote for the party giving you the handouts.

However, coporate welfare causes businesses to create jobs. The more money a company has, the more likely it is to grow - and therefore, create jobs. My company just got a shload of money from our state in the form of a grant (read as welfare), and we're already talking about using the money to build a new plant. That means we'll be hiring more people.

Just a point of clarification: I'm against corporate welfare, too. If a company isn't strong enough to make it on it's own - it shouldn't be propped up by the governmet.

 

[KenHigg]

That is just not true. I can tell you that if the government announced free health care TODAY, I would not quit my job, I would not say, oh well then, why work?

You quitting your job is a pretty shallow premise for the 'it's not true'. Anyway, we're at a good stopping point as we seem to at a conclusion: You don't mind paying for the health care of a person that's doesn't want to work and I do mind. I feel better about voting against the dems again

 

[Rich]

The difference between the two is that a single person on welfare has no motivation to go to work. Actually, going to work for minimum wage will actually decrease your benefits too much to make it worthwhile. Welfare was created to trap you into it. Once you're dependant on the government, you'll continue to vote for the party giving you the handouts.

However, coporate welfare causes businesses to create jobs. The more money a company has, the more likely it is to grow - and therefore, create jobs. My company just got a shload of money from our state in the form of a grant (read as welfare), and we're already talking about using the money to build a new plant. That means we'll be hiring more people.

Just a point of clarification: I'm against corporate welfare, too. If a company isn't strong enough to make it on it's own - it shouldn't be propped up by the governmet.

What proof do you have of this?

 

[Rich]

You quitting your job is a pretty shallow premise for the 'it's not true'. Anyway, we're at a good stopping point as we seem to at a conclusion: You don't mind paying for the health care of a person that's doesn't want to work and I do mind. I feel better about voting against the dems again

What about those born disabled or stricken down with a disease before they're able to start work, should they be dumped on the local waste collection centre at 16?

 

[KenHigg]

What about those born disabled or stricken down with a disease before they're able to start work, should they be dumped on the local waste collection centre at 16?

Apple vs oranges. Come up with a system that eliminates people who don't want to work and people who don't want to seek legal citizenship and I'll take a look.

 

[Alc]

Come up with a system that eliminates people who don't want to work and people who don't want to seek legal citizenship and I'll take a look.

Would you lump those two in together? People who don't want to work AND who don't want legal citizenship, or would you say either criterion alone is enough to exclude them from healthcare?

The reason I ask is that I've been living in a country other than that where I was born for five years. I'm not a citizen of it nor do I have any intention of becoming one. I've been working and paying taxes for the vast majority of that time. I'd fall into the second category you describe, but not the first. Should I be claiming my healthcare or not?

 

[KenHigg]

I guess if you are there legally and you are somehow helping foot the bill then I see no reason why you shouldn't get the services...

 

[georgedwilkinson]

I don't know whose political columns you lifted that from, but banks were not making loans to QUALIFIED black people, a practice that has continued even today as minorities with EQUAL qualifications, income, and credit scores were given SUBPRIME loans, even as their white counterparts were given prime loans with fixed rates.

You've mentioned this a couple of times and I'd like to amend it to make it more complete, and thus, more accurate.

Subprime loans are not necessarily Adjustable loans...many subprime loans are fixed rate loans. And, you need not be black or poor to have had the good fortune to have received one. I received a subprime loan on my home in Tampa. As you know, I am neither black nor poor, just gullible.

I am also a targeted victim of predatory lending practices. I had no clue of this until recently. Again, neither black nor poor (whatever that means). In fact, it doesn't mention either of those things on the applications for these loans.

Who's fault is it that I was a victim? Mostly mine, I should have educated myself and shouldn't have taken the bank's word for it. I could potentially also lay some of the blame on the bank. They should have known that you can't loan half a million dollars to someone with $150K collateral without checking income.

 

[Len Boorman]

By the eck, people have been clocking up the post count while I did some work.

Ken. Ask me any question you like. I am not a pyromaniac. By the way asking for money will get a very short reply.

NHS. Like all things good and bad. I have a heart attack or grt run over by a bus. Nobody is checking to see if my insurance is up to date before they treat me.

Over 60 free prescriptions Okay for my blood pressure.

Basically if treatment of a condition is required then I get it for free.

Down side that really hacks me off at times.

People who arrive with a known condition and then expect and get free treatment. Okay I can go along with accidents and emergencies but ingrowing toenails really up my blood pressure.

To qualify for complete NHS benefits.

1) Borne in this country with no external residency exceeding 1 month per year of age
or
2) Proven residency for 15 years. Pro rata costs for reduced residency. After 7.5 years you pay half.

See fair to me

Okay the Government

Who was the clown that at a stroke nailed the pension funds
Who was the clown that sold our gold reserves at rock bottom prices
Who was the clown that announced he was going to seel the gold 6 months before thus ensuring a rock bottom price

Who was the clown that created the boom and through lack of control ensured the bust would happen

Who was the clown who promised a referendum on the EU and then reneged
Who was the clown who scrapped teh 10p tax band and claimed nobody would be affected. (Hmmm obviously failed 11+ maths) ang on I did that as well but I could see the result in about 15 seconds.

How many examples of a clown in full flight do you want... and do not be fooled by his handling of the current crisis. He was the bloody cause

Hmmm feel better now

Better have a lie down all the same

 

[redneckgeek]

What proof do you have of this?

Probably anything ever written by Prof Walter E Williams, or maybe the book "Freakonomics" or possibly all the exposure I've had to people on welfare throughout my life.

Am I going to search for a link for you with IRREFUTABLE proof for you?
No - you still wouldn't accept it anyway.

 

[KenHigg]

Probably anything ever written by Prof Walter E Williams, or maybe the book "Freakonomics" or possibly all the exposure I've had to people on welfare throughout my life.

Am I going to search for a link for you with IRREFUTABLE proof for you?
No - you still wouldn't except it anyway.

I'm guessing he would except it

 

[KenHigg]

...ingrowing toenails really up my blood pressure.

Hum... I'll keep mine trimmed for a couple months and re-check my BP and see if it helps mine -

 

[Rich]

Who was the clown that at a stroke nailed the pension funds
Who was the clown that sold our gold reserves at rock bottom prices
Who was the clown that announced he was going to seel the gold 6 months before thus ensuring a rock bottom price

Who was the clown that created the boom and through lack of control ensured the bust would happen

Who was the clown who promised a referendum on the EU and then reneged
Who was the clown who scrapped teh 10p tax band and claimed nobody would be affected. (Hmmm obviously failed 11+ maths) ang on I did that as well but I could see the result in about 15 seconds.

How many examples of a clown in full flight do you want... and do not be fooled by his handling of the current crisis. He was the bloody cause

Hmmm feel better now

Better have a lie down all the same

But you're forgetting that Gordon put an end to the "boom and bust" years

 

[Alc]

I guess if you are there legally and you are somehow helping foot the bill then I see no reason why you shouldn't get the services...

Thanks.

Feel free to edit as you see fit

Originally Posted by KenHigg
Come up with a system that eliminates people who don't want to work and people who don't want to seek legal citizenship and I'll take a look.

 

[Len Boorman]

But you're forgetting that Gordon put an end to the "boom and bust" years

yeah we are so busted now it will take Tory government to sort things out

Hey Ken. Love the "quote out of context" but some of us Brits can understand your humour

 

[KenHigg]

Thanks.

Feel free to edit as you see fit

Originally Posted by KenHigg
Come up with a system that eliminates people who don't want to work and people who don't want to seek legal citizenship and I'll take a look.

I can live with the edit

Unlike Alisa, I'm flexible and allowed to think for myself and do not have to check a political party rule book

 

[Rich]

Probably anything ever written by Prof Walter E Williams, or maybe the book "Freakonomics"

Both books based on theory by conservatives

or possibly all the exposure I've had to people on welfare throughout my life.

How many out of say 260,000,000?

Proof man, proof?

 

[KenHigg]

Hey Ken. Love the "quote out of context" but some of us Brits can understand your humour

Good to leave for home on an upbeat -

 

[georgedwilkinson]

Proof man, proof?

So, if he provides proof, you're going to be providing proof for the outrageous claims you make, then?

 

[Rich]

Good to leave for home on an upbeat -

Don't run away, we haven't finished with you yet