Jesus Christ - Fact or Fiction?

Rich said:
Why doesn't the rest of America share this feeling then?:confused:

What does the "rest" of America think Rich?
 
jsanders said:
What does the "rest" of America think Rich?
Well I don't have time for a definitive list at the minute but basically f*** you we're American
 
Shane, I didn't say I perceived you as pompous...;)

Since this can be a touchy subject, I'll try again. For me, my decisions in spirituality steer as far from structured religion as possible and I avoid, or at least attempt to, the labels of christianity, etc. because of my own personal experiences. I do not feel that I am wrong, nor do I feel you are wrong...we have just made choices in our lives and about ourselves based upon our own perception of self. I don't consider myself more enlightened than a muslim, jew, or your average southern baptist (well maybe a southern baptist:eek: ) I just consider the path that I am on to be a personal one. For that reason, I don't understand why you would feel the need to pray for me or feel concerned for me simply because my personal decisions are different from yours. And don't take that as combative as it isn't meant to be.
 
Bodisathva said:
Shane, I didn't say I perceived you as pompous...;)

Since this can be a touchy subject, I'll try again. For me, my decisions in spirituality steer as far from structured religion as possible and I avoid, or at least attempt to, the labels of christianity, etc. because of my own personal experiences. I do not feel that I am wrong, nor do I feel you are wrong...we have just made choices in our lives and about ourselves based upon our own perception of self. I don't consider myself more enlightened than a muslim, jew, or your average southern baptist (well maybe a southern baptist:eek: ) I just consider the path that I am on to be a personal one. For that reason, I don't understand why you would feel the need to pray for me or feel concerned for me simply because my personal decisions are different from yours. And don't take that as combative as it isn't meant to be.

Hey Bodi, I know you didn't say you perceived me as pompous nor did I take it that way. Didn't mean to give you the perception that I took it that way. I figured you were telling me of how people can take folks like me, even if that is not how I intended to come across.

"need to pray for you" First, I did not take anything combative. Feel the need to pray? I'm afraid to answer because it will just cause everything to be put under a mircoscope. If you allow some slack to be cut to me, then I would say it like this. You are right in saying you believe what you do and I believe what I do. Because of what I believe then I also I believe I'm right.:D I would think that would make sense to anyone, cause otherwise I wouldn't believe it. You believe what you do and you believe your right. The difference between the beliefs is that I believe the Bible and the Bible tells me of choices made and the consequences of those choices. Therefor, if someone is choosing against the things taught in the Bible, because of my beliefs, then I would want to pray for them, cause if the Bible is right, the ending places are either real good or real bad.:) I'm trying to not dive too deep into this cause I know there is a chance of pulling it apart, but I am trying to get the point across that I am sincere in what I believe to the point of not wanting anyone to end up in the real bad place. (Assuming the Bible is right.) Now with that being said. I am not wanting to be combative either. I would have to admit that if a Jew was to meet me and believed I was way off for believing in this Jesus as the Messiah thing and chose to pray for me because I do believe it. It wouldn't make me think anything one way or the other. If it did then maybe it would tell me that at least I meant enough to them for them to take the time and pray for me.
 
Bodisathva said:
For that reason, I don't understand why you would feel the need to pray for me or feel concerned for me simply because my personal decisions are different from yours.

I'd like to take this point up if I may.

Belief is not the same as truth. It can't be. For if it was the notion of Jesus as the Messiah would both be proven and disproven as truth by the Christian and Jewish faiths respectively.

So how is this problem dealt with. The only way it can be, that any faith that conflicts with one's own MUST be wrong. This conclusion leaves the road wide open for any scenario of one's faith to be interpretated as reality. Nothing can conflict with this because any conflicting concept has already been dismissed as incorrect.

Hell, then, for some IS a reality. To say it is not is to say that a conflict to one's faith is acceptable as truth and that of course cannot be done without accepting that one's own faith could be wrong.

Thus hell is perceived as real and certain individuals are perceived as heading there. Some may think that this perception is ill-conceived but this makes no difference to the perception. You could decide to attempt to alter this perception but until you are successful, this perception is as real as the sky is blue (for the perceiver)

Having said all this I would say that an attempt to prevent another's future suffering, though this suffering is yet to be proven, is still a benevolent act. :)
 
dan-cat said:
...any faith that conflicts with one's own MUST be wrong.
The quintessential genesis of every major conflict since the beginning of time :D
dan-cat said:
Having said all this I would say that an attempt to prevent another's future suffering, though this suffering is yet to be proven, is still a benevolent act. :)
Some of us (read that as "I") perceive it as exactly that. Although my faith tells me that it's a complete waste of time, the act itself has meaning to the actor, therefore it is in that context by which it must be evaluated. The problems arise with those who will not, either as a direct result of a personal decision or a cultural one, ever accept it as anything close to benevolence. It's all about perception.
 
You can probably guess from my location tag that I have alot of contact with people who have very strong beliefs.

One thing is clear to me. There are some who genuinely believe in damnation and genuinely pray for the 'lost' because they want non-believers to avoid hell. There are others who I think don't believe it at all but use the concept as a tool to elevate themselves above others. The first group can be so passionate about their belief that they can easily get confused with the second. But I am certain that both groups do exist.
 
Bodisathva said:
The quintessential genesis of every major conflict since the beginning of time :D
.


Throughout history and certainly much further back then that, I think major conflict, is born of plumage.
 
jsanders said:
Throughout history and certainly much further back then that, I think major conflict, is born of plumage.
Feathers on a bird cause wars?:confused: :confused:
 
Kraj said:
Go preach your religious nonsense somewhere else! :mad: ;) :p

I'd probably get more converts if I did preach elsewhere. Like Baghdad for example :p

Shouldn't we all be at church or something :p
 
dan-cat said:
So how is this problem dealt with. The only way it can be, that any faith that conflicts with one's own MUST be wrong. This conclusion leaves the road wide open for any scenario of one's faith to be interpretated as reality. Nothing can conflict with this because any conflicting concept has already been dismissed as incorrect.
Which is why "young earth" creationists will never accept evolution, no matter how logically it is presented to them.
 

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