Martin-Luther-King. Just lipservice or progression? (1 Viewer)

[ColinEssex]

I see on the BBC news yesterday that Obama unveiled a statue of MLK, 43 years after his "I have a dream" speech.

How have things gone in the USA over those 43 years? Yes the segregated queues and the different buses have gone, but have things really changed?

It said that a black family is 20 times worse off than a white family - is that true? If not, what are the proportions?

Do white people only pay lip service to the blacks? They interviewed some black people and they said things haven't changed much. Do you white people agree?

Do you have black people in your area? In the UK I (and many others) get the impression the USA whites still racially hate the black people.

I know those here will say that all is well because that is the PC thing to say - but is it really true?

Col

 

[GaryPanic]

hand grenade time....
duck


I suspect that the same amount of change as the UK
things here aren't excatly equal
and it will depend on which Part of the US you look at - its a big old place
the North should be better than the South .. but you would need a Black American to answer this to get an objective answer
perhaps the question should be reversed ? does the Black population of the US /UK have equal opportunities to get jobs
I think the answer is no on both sides
have things improved on both/either side ?
G

 

[pbaldy]

I'll bite. Things are vastly improved since then, but there is still room for improvement. We have a black president, elected in large measure by whites. Lip service doesn't accomplish that (has the UK had a black PM...). Some white people will never respect/accept black people, and some blacks will never acknowledge that things are better.

I'm white, but I'm married to a black woman. We have rarely had a problem with race, and the worst problems we've had came from black men, not white people. Both of our families like each other. We are/she is accepted and treated well everywhere we go. As Gary mentioned, it varies around this large country. In travelling, we did sense less acceptance in the south, though there were no overt acts. Of course, that was more of an interracial relationship thing; we sensed it from blacks and whites alike there.

When my wife was young, there were many businesses in town that she couldn't walk through the front door of. Bathrooms she couldn't enter. Her daughter never experienced that. I think that's a long way to go in a single generation. You don't change people's beliefs with a wave of a magic wand. It takes time to educate them.

Is America perfect? No, far from it, racially or by any other measure. It's still pretty good though, for all its faults. We’re contemplating retiring abroad, but that’s more about experiencing other cultures than getting away from America. There’s a lot I’d change about America, but the list of other countries I’d call “better” is not that long.

 

[AccessBlaster]

It’s awesome how we dominate your thoughts; you can’t take a sip of tea without thinking of USA isn’t that right Col?

 

[ColinEssex]

It’s awesome how we dominate your thoughts; you can’t take a sip of tea without thinking of USA isn’t that right Col?

You are right. However, being as the USA is constantly in the news and on TV here, recent examples being

a) The MLK thing.
b) The Indie car race that killed a UK driver.
c) Yet another multi shooting / killing spree somewhere last week.
d) Economy and how the US destroyed the world economies especially in Europe.
e) Extremes of weather

It does make it difficult not to think of questions that you "normal" people may like to answer. Also, learning about other places is a good thing isn't it?

pbaldy - The TV news appeared to give a much worse account than you seem to experience. Maybe they focused on the South where things are much worse?

Col

 

[GaryPanic]

Rubbish

the indie car thing -is nothing its a dangerous sport - Europe had the massive death toll some years back 100+

Kill spree Norway/Sweden ...
extremes of weather that hardly the US fault
Economy - bollocks - partly down to cycles of trade and also the EU letting in weak contries

Now that not to say the US doesn't have some input into t he problems b ut to lay it at their feet doesn't seem rightr

 

[Adam Caramon]

...

I knew right after reading the title that it was going to be a Colin post.

Things are vastly improved since then, but there is still room for improvement. We have a black president, elected in large measure by whites. Lip service doesn't accomplish that (has the UK had a black PM...). Some white people will never respect/accept black people, and some blacks will never acknowledge that things are better.

I think that pretty well sums it up.

It’s awesome how we dominate your thoughts; you can’t take a sip of tea without thinking of USA isn’t that right Col?

I was thinking the same. I think Colin has too much free time on his hands.

 

[Brianwarnock]

I knew right after reading the title that it was going to be a Colin post.




I was thinking the same. I think Colin has too much free time on his hands.

As he signs his posts col that was not exactly rocket science, if the site could deactivate colinessex he would use it.
As for his time he is retired but is the cater for his sick wife so what he can do with it is probably limited.

Brian

 

[Brianwarnock]

Posters reactions to colin's posts are often as narrow minded as his reactions to US events. All he was trying to illustrate, but not too cleverly perhaps, is that our news is dominated by the US, that is to be expected as they are currently the worlds top dog.

Brian

Paul has to be excluded from any criticism of course.

 

[pbaldy]

pbaldy - The TV news appeared to give a much worse account than you seem to experience. Maybe they focused on the South where things are much worse?

That's certainly a possibility, but I suspect the major issue is the way the media likes to sensationalize everything. A headline of "everything is calm" doesn't sell papers or hook viewers. They find the most sensational, outrageous, etc stories they can find and lead with that. You don't hear about the majority for whom life is good, you hear from the "squeaky wheel".

Also, keep in mind the size of this country. I think my state is larger than the UK. The country is probably 2-3 times the size of Europe and the UK combined. It's only logical that more news will come out of here, all things being equal.

Brian, I wish I was immune from criticism, but I've earned plenty.

 

[Brianwarnock]

Brian, I wish I was immune from criticism, but I've earned plenty.

I was thinking of this thread only.

What's the saying


" He who has not made a mistake has not made anything"

or something like that.

Brian

 

[Vassago]

Let's keep the personal attacks at bay. Colin's post didn't outright attack anyone, so there was no reason to begin a trolling session with him. In fact, I find this discussion rather fascinating.

Yes, there is still a lot of ignorance in this country. I find that it is no longer about blacks and whites. The majority of ignorance I have seen recently is Muslim related. There have even been cases of ignornace where Indians have been mistreated because they have darker skin and may "resemble" a Muslim. This ignorance has appeared to affect blacks and whites alike.

The same goes for gays. There has been plenty of ignorance in relation to this topic, although it's less about race obviously.

 

[Jacob Mathai]

Let me talk about the economic disparity. Today, most people are looking for Office jobs (white collar). Jobs like typists, secretaries, bank tellers are disappearing due to technology and automation. Without an appropriate college degree, it is hard to get an office job today.
Blacks lag behind in education and especially in advanced degrees. That is the main reason for economic disparity.
Let me give my observations.

Everything being equal, a black person has a higher chance of getting employed by a large corporation than a white person. The company's desire to help minorities and the positive image it creates are the two main reasons. There are also laws regarding equal opportunity and Affirmative action.

The middle class and the rich families send their children to Colleges. As you all know, colleges are very expensive these days. Many black families are headed by single parents. In many cases, these parents are unable to motivate their children to go to colleges. They also lack the financial resources. This is working against the black children in getting higher paying jobs.

Today, there are plenty of blue collar jobs available in the service industry. When I call a plumber, the hourly rate is $135.00. There is a shortage of skilled people here in the Unites States. I do not see very many young black people trying to become skilled in a trade.

Regarding attitudes towards blacks, America has made significant progress in the last 45 years. But things are not perfect.

BTW, I am an Asian Immigrant living in the USA. I am an US Citizen. With all its faults, this is a great nation. I will not trade USA for any other.

 

[Vassago]

Let me talk about the economic disparity. Today, most people are looking for Office jobs (white collar). Jobs like typists, secretaries, bank tellers are disappearing due to technology and automation. Without an appropriate college degree, it is hard to get an office job today.
Blacks lag behind in education and especially in advanced degrees. That is the main reason for economic disparity.
Let me give my observations.

Everything being equal, a black person has a higher chance of getting employed by a large corporation than a white person. The company's desire to help minorities and the positive image it creates are the two main reasons. There are also laws regarding equal opportunity and Affirmative action.

The middle class and the rich families send their children to Colleges. As you all know, colleges are very expensive these days. Many black families are headed by single parents. In many cases, these parents are unable to motivate their children to go to colleges. They also lack the financial resources. This is working against the black children in getting higher paying jobs.

Today, there are plenty of blue collar jobs available in the service industry. When I call a plumber, the hourly rate is $135.00. There is a shortage of skilled people here in the Unites States. I do not see very many young black people trying to become skilled in a trade.

Regarding attitudes towards blacks, America has made significant progress in the last 45 years. But things are not perfect.

BTW, I am an Asian Immigrant living in the USA. I am an US Citizen. With all its faults, this is a great nation. I will not trade USA for any other.

A lot of it has to do with finances, this is true. There is also an issue of motivation by the parents. Most of the racial tension by whites and blacks alike, and the undesire to succeed in school is a learned behavior from their parents. If you take that single mother raising her children, is she motivating them to finish school? How are the home conditions? Are the children involved in crime because of the living conditions and unambition of the parent? These things very well lead to more of the same for the children. The process begins anew. This isn't true in EVERY situation in these communities, but it's more often the norm.

I do agree with you though. This country, for all it's faults, is still my home. I try my best to personally improve it in every way I can.

I think we will see many many adjustments made to this country and the split party system in the next decade. As the party line continues to broaden, we will see more people segregate from these parties to run independent or with a smaller party. The change is already happening around us. As more people from my generation start taking office, we will see less divide on social issues than we did in the past. There is far less tension over race, sexual preference, and sex than there was 50 years ago because the social atmosphere has shifted. With the internet and technology constantly improving, people are able to reach out to the world and experince many more views than they could in the past. I'm excited to see what my generation can do for this country in bringing us, finally, into the 21st century.

 

[ColinEssex]

I find it incredible how some people can react so harshly to questions about their country and culture. Almost as if they are guilty of trying to hide something.
It was the same when I asked what I thought were innocent questions about the twin towers and the "9/11 effect" - that thread was locked (by an Australian!)

I realise the USA is 2 or 3 times as big as Europe and has 300+ million people, so is a nightmare to control - but as I said, learning from "the ground floor" is surely better than reading the sensationalism of newspapers which exaggerate the facts.

I was interested in the Muslim angle - I bet that has only occured since 2001. (I won't mention 11/9 in detail or the thread will be locked - I always have to tread carefully)

Brian, thanks for the backup - I do have time to log in here but don't very often, maybe once a week, nothing much seems to happen, it's so boring here - I would like my name back, I have asked but no joy.

So do the unemployed get benefits in the USA? Like dole money - what about health cover? Is that free? and as good as the paid for healthcover? Can you get free healthcare? Do black people in Georgia (for example) get the same benefits as white people in New England?

Col

 

[MrsGorilla]

Posters reactions to colin's posts are often as narrow minded as his reactions to US events.

True, but he has kind of brought that upon himself.

As he signs his posts col that was not exactly rocket science, if the site could deactivate colinessex he would use it.

I think what Adam was trying to say is that he knew who initiated the thread just by reading the title.

So do the unemployed get benefits in the USA? Like dole money - what about health cover? Is that free? and as good as the paid for healthcover? Can you get free healthcare? Do black people in Georgia (for example) get the same benefits as white people in New England?

Col

Yes, the unemployed get benefits for a while but it doesn't last forever. It's meant to help you until you can find work again, however with the downturn of the economy I think they extended the number of weeks that a person can continue to receive unemployment benefits. As far as the healthcare thing, I think that varies from state to state. I know here in OK we have a program that will allow you to insure your kids if you are a low/no income family. As for yourself, that's a different story. I personally don't know all the answers as I have been fortunate not to find myself in that position as of yet, but I know my sister-in-law was mostly a stay-at-home mom until her husband left her. For a while she was working at a job where she had no benefits as she wasn't full-time, so she was going to the Health Dept. to get basic health care for free, such as annual exam, flu shot, and other preventative things. It's not quite the same as having your own insurance and being able to go to a doctor of your choosing but it's something.

I would imagine other states have similar programs, some are probably much better than ours, others may not be as good. I don't really know.

Overall, I think things are much better but there is always room for improvement. You will always have some whites that are bigoted against blacks (or other minorities) and some blacks that are bigoted against whites. But on the whole things are much improved over what they used to be.

 

[AccessBlaster]

We have had 300 years to correct our injustices; you on the other hand have had a millennium. We have gone from slavery to having a black president in very short amount of time. So please tell the world when the next minority King or Queen will be? Or Prime Minister? Or will we have to wait another millennium?

 

[Vassago]

This is not going to turn into a country bashing/pointing fingers thread.

What does the UK see as far as racism goes? Is there a lot of racism? What about anti-gay or religious movements? What about treatment to people from other countries, such as the US?

 

[AccessBlaster]

This is not going to turn into a country bashing/pointing fingers thread.

What does the UK see as far as racism goes? Is there a lot of racism? What about anti-gay or religious movements? What about treatment to people from other countries, such as the US?

No country bashing/pointing fingers thread here, move along folks nothing to see.

I see on the BBC news yesterday that Obama unveiled a statue of MLK, 43 years after his "I have a dream" speech.

How have things gone in the USA over those 43 years? Yes the segregated queues and the different buses have gone, but have things really changed?

It said that a black family is 20 times worse off than a white family - is that true? If not, what are the proportions?

Do white people only pay lip service to the blacks? They interviewed some black people and they said things haven't changed much. Do you white people agree?

Do you have black people in your area? In the UK I (and many others) get the impression the USA whites still racially hate the black people.

I know those here will say that all is well because that is the PC thing to say - but is it really true?

Col

 

[Rich]

Can you get free healthcare?

Col

We don't get it here anyway, what benefits we supposedly get have been paid for and their benefits reduced over the years unless you have privately funde healthcare, your'e stuffed anyway