Negotiating with my manager (1 Viewer)

[Alc]

I apologise in advance for the length of the following post, but I wanted to get in as much detail as I could. Please don't read it if lengthy explanations bother you. I also realise that I'm in a very fortunate situation and many people would love to be in my situation. That said, all problems are subjective and I would like a second opinion.

I've been wracking my brain for the best way to phrase my argument regarding the following, as I'm only going to get one chance to make it.
Many forum members have more experience of working for large companies, so I'd value any input.

I'm currently self-employed and have been working as a contractor, for a Canadian bank, since April 2006. Since 2008, my schedule has been as follows:
Monday - In the office
Tuesday - work from home
Wednesday - In the office
Thursday - off work
Friday - Alternate weeks, working from home or in the office
It's a routine I negotiated instead of asking for pay rises, so that I'd be around to take my son to doctor's appointments, swimming classes, etc. as well as being able to walk him to and from kindergarten (two days some weeks, three days others). Everyone has been happy with this routine - the work gets done, I greatly reduce the time I would spend commuting (two hours each way), and I get to see my son growing up.

Unfortunately, the bank is stopping all contracts from being renewed and I've been told that at the end of my current one (October 31st), I have to either join as a full-time employee or leave altogether.

If I go full-time:
I know that I'll be making slightly less - I don't have a problem with this, as I'll now get vacation and sick pay.
I know that I'll now be working five days a week, instead of four - I don't have a problem with this (I always worked five-six days before the current role)
My problem is the remote working. I'm part of a four man team, located in a larger department. Some other people in the department (not my team) have been complaining to my team manager about the fact that I get to do it and they don't. As a result, he's considering stopping me from doing it altogether. If I were to go to commuting five days per week, I honestly don't think I'd stay in the job. The extra time and cost involved, coupled with not seeing my son while he's young, apart from weekends, just wouldn't be worth it to me.

My argument for being allowed to continue is as follows (I'm trying to think of whether I've missed anything relevant):
1. The current routine has been in place for six and half years. I'm happy with it, my boss is happy with it.
2. I work as a 'self-contained' unit. I build things and publish reports from a laptop. I could do my job anywhere on earth, as long as I had internet access. The people who are complaining do their work on secure servers and with confidential data. They couldn't work remotely even if they were allowed to.
3. If I leave, the time taken to bring someone else in and get them up to speed with both the database and the business processes wouldn't be inconsiderable. It would cause delays and disruption AND would do so at the most important time of the year (our fiscal year ends October 31st).

Any input gratefully received.

 

[plog]

As a result, he's considering stopping me from doing it altogether. If I were to go to commuting five days per week, I honestly don't think I'd stay in the job

Is that a true statement or just your initial gut reaction? If its true, there's no negotiating or angle to shoot or proper phrasing necessary. Tell your boss its a dealbreaker and leave it at that. If he asks why, don't use any of your 3 numbered arguments, just tell him why its personally important to you (kids, convencince, hate communting, etc.).

You don't have to make a business argument to him for why he should allow it. If you truly will leave over this, that's all the business argument he needs--I will lose this guy if I don't let him work remotely.

 

[Alc]

Thanks for the response.

It is what I think, but I was trying to avoid a straight-forward ultimatum, as I don't want it to look like a battle of wills. I've had at least one manager who'd screw herself and the company over just to show she won't be 'intimidated'. I figured if I gave him some reasons, it would help him feel more informed and perhaps make it easier for me.

Maybe not. Like I say, some people have far more experience than I do.

 

[spikepl]

I agree with plog.

BTW: if you want a frame within which to process this, I'd highly recommend "Getting to yes" http://www.amazon.com/Getting-Yes-Negotiating-Agreement-Without/dp/0140157352

It's an easy (and for me quite interesting) read ( a few hours), highly educational, and gives you a few useful tools so as to be better armed (and yet not screw anybody so you can still face yourself in the mirror).

 

[Alc]

Thanks.

Sounds like leaving out my list of reasons is the way to go. Glad I asked

I have to speak to him abut it this afternoon, as he's off on vacation for two weeks and i don't want to have everything up the air until he gets back. Think I'll check if the local library has that book, though. Does look like an interesting read.

 

[spikepl]

Amazon is normally pretty quick and used copies are 1 cent ... ! See what amazon customers wrote about the book.

And I would not suggest looking for an online copy, no sir, never, not at all

 

[spikepl]

The main poiunts of the book would in your situation be deciding on your so-called BATNA (best alternative to negotiated agreement - that's where you draw the line).

The essential bits are also to consider your manager's situation and position - he may be constrained by some corporate BS and by the need to keep the others in the office happy too. Ask yourself, if you are to get what you want, what coulld you give your mananger so that he still looks good - both upwards and to the other office gits!

I once got a pay-raise like that. They could not increase my salary, but I got 2 or 3 extra fully-paid weeks off! So my nominal pay remained unaltered. LOL!

 

[Alc]

The main poiunts of the book would in your situation be deciding on your so-called BATNA (best alternative to negotiated agreement - that's where you draw the line).

At the moment, anything less than two days a week working remote would be out.

The essential bits are also to consider your manager's situation and position - he may be constrained by some corporate BS

He isn't. I spoke to HR and it's entirely his decision.

and by the need to keep the others in the office happy too.

that's the only sticking point.

Ask yourself, if you are to get what you want, what coulld you give your mananger so that he still looks good - both upwards and to the other office gits!

Stumped here. The proposal is to remove a currently working process. On the days i'm in the office, I arrive before everyone else anyway, so coming in early is out. I could offer to stay on and only leave when everyone else does, I suppose. Would mean getting home late, but like you say, what can I offer?

 

[spikepl]

You know your situation, I don't .. there are so many factors in the mix, each of which you could fiddle: working hours, working days, holidays, the amount of work, the pay, other compensation, overtime, overtime compensation, the holidays: work/ no work - how many days?, rates: per hour, per day, other office activities, suggestions for the entire office so other also do a bit like this or like that ... again yu know your situation.

Ask a friend to pose these questions, since it is difficult to perform surgery on oneself. But you have more degrees of freedom than you think - just need to id them and sell them.

 

[plog]

The proposal is to remove a currently working process.

Religion, women and politics--you can't hope to make appeals to logic to entites that show they don't use it. The contract seemed to be working fine, but then the organization completely took those away. They don't see it as them shooting themselves in the foot, even after they get diagnosed with a shot foot they hardly will go back and learn from the situation much less change it back.

...what can I offer?

Offer nothing until they ask you to offer something. Don't go in, already giving something up. Hold fast and make them ask for something, then consider it. They threw out the rule book and now you get to help them decide what the new rules are.

 

[Alc]

Again, both, the input is much appreciated.

I did discuss it with friends who work here and I'll be speaking to him within an hour or so.

When I (eventually) know the outcome, I'll let you know. Perhaps just before clearing my desk

 

[dan-cat]

He isn't. I spoke to HR and it's entirely his decision.

Good news, the policy hasn't been set in stone yet.

that's the only sticking point.

Also good news, this means he's malleable. I would say unfortunately so, as he has been coerced to raise this situation by his subordinates.

Perhaps subtly prick his pride by describing your current arrangement as a longstanding, successful relationship between the two of you and breaking it would be a weakness on his part. Don't call him weak LOL but imply the current relationship is a sign of his strong leadership skills.

 

[spikepl]

Hmmm... now I do not agree with plog. You need to think this though - this is not a question of largest swinging dick, so your manager may need an excuse to give you what you want and still look good, so you better have one ready. Get the bl... book Don't they have a downloadable version? 2 hours!!

 

[Alc]

Perhaps subtly prick his pride by describing your current arrangement as a longstanding, successful relationship between the two of you

Done that, when it was first mentioned.
and breaking it would be a weakness on his part. Don't call him weak LOL

but imply the current relationship is a sign of his strong leadership skills.

Done that too (not a total fool, just partial )

Get the bl... book Don't they have a downloadable version? 2 hours!!

If so, I wouldn't be able to read it now - downloads strictly prohibitedon work computers.

 

[dan-cat]

Hmmm... now I do not agree with plog. You need to think this though - this is not a question of largest swinging dick, so your manager may need an excuse to give you what you want and still look good, so you better have one ready. Get the bl... book Don't they have a downloadable version? 2 hours!!

I agree Spike, I wasn't convinced about the give me or else approach as that is a good way of allowing the manager to escape. Definitely care is required. A distaste for commuting is not an argument. An offer of a full-time position is also tricky as it's difficult to dodge a sense of ingratitude.

Difficult not to re-enforce the office workers complaints but that's what is needed. Trying to brain-storm here lol

 

[Alc]

I knew I didn't phrase it correctly in my original post.
Half a dozen posts later and we're back to my original problem.

 

[dan-cat]

Well the "give me or else" part will have to come in at some point, if that is what will happen, I just didn't think it wise to come in at the beginning. Where's Mr Warnock? He used to be a manager, so did Col I think.

 

[Brianwarnock]

It is difficult to properly advise remotely and all situations tend to be different, so are the people. The manager sounds weak as he should have already told the other staff that their situation is different and cannot be done remotely.

I would forget point 3 on your list as it sounds like you have made yourself irreplaceable , not good, bad management in fact, I would use that as excuse to get you in full time to train a stand by.

I would expand point 1 .
A working partnership that you are both happy with and that has been successful, but the extra time and cost (in that order) of the new arrangement might cause you to have to reconsider your employment. Do not hold a gun to his head, he cannot afford to be seen to back down to an ultimatum, if he is any good he will get the message.

Hope this helps and best of luck

Brian

 

[Bladerunner]

You would have to convince me that :

1. it would be profitable to leave the arrangement alone.(If there are additional duties in the full-time scheme, can you pick them up remotely and do them more efficiently. Give money values here to express any differences.)

2. that you are more productive in your present situation than if you were here full time. (be very careful here and be sure to differentiate this from #1. better production = more money sometimes but not always.)

3. Bring to my attention, the fact that the other office workers could not do their job assignments remotely. (Yes, I probably already know this but would like to know you know it as well.)

Does this new position include any management role over the other office workers. If so, it will be hard to dissuade him. (one option to be to get him to see ( again use any or all of the three recs. above to do this) that one of the other workers could do this more efficiently mainly because they are doing the same type of work?

You have to make him feel good about his decision and be able to justify his decision with his bosses. Rem, everybody has a boss.

 

[Brianwarnock]

I wonder how this went.

Brian