Socialized medicine vs Insurance-based Health Care

[ChipperT]

We have all heard the hype and rants about the new U.S. socialized insurance-based health care (the so-called Obama-care). Now I would like to hear the FACTS, and not the spins, about socialized health care in other countries, such as the UK, Ireland, Australia, Canada and anywhere else that has government-provided health care.

Tell us the pros and cons and your own experiences about the health care system where YOU live. How good is the care? How easy is it to obtain? How is it paid for? How much does it cost you (in taxes/VAT, out of pocket)? Let cut through the blarney and drivel and hear what is really going on!

 

[JamesMcS]

I've said many times that one of the best things about being in the UK is nationalised healthcare. I couldn't imagine being sick and not being able to get treatment because I'm not rich enough. As an example I sliced my thumb pretty badly a few years ago, right through the joint to the point where it almost came off. That evening I was in an operating theatre having arteries, nerves and muscles sewn back on, and sent on my way the next morning with a sandwich.

I saw a programme once where a guy in the states had cut two of his fingers off on a bench saw. They told him it was $60k to reattach the little finger and $80k to reattach the ring finger, so he had to choose the cheaper one!! Poor guy! Even when they had the facilities and time to do it they still chucked his finger in the incinerator, just because he didn't have the money! Mental

 

[Fifty2One]

Its not perfect but in Canada there is no billing department taking up an entire floor of any hospital, and it is not because the billing is outsourced to a finance company either. I dont think the difference in overall houshold tax burden is not as much as the cost of privatization of the healthcare system.
Not including the monetary burden and added stress to have to seek finances to cover the happen chance that you will become ill or injured, I do know some people who are uninsurable in the USA due to 'pre-existing conditions' . That is such an unfair burden to face as the insurance companies are just looking for an excuse to re-evaluate a file if you change anything on your contract - even your address or employer.

 

[Brianwarnock]

, I do know some people who are uninsurable in the USA due to 'pre-existing conditions' . .

This is a question I tried to get an answer on on a previous thread about US health care, but the private health care advocates did not respond.

I asked because my wife was diagnosed with a cancer back in '92, since then she has also had stents for heart desease and now has a lung problem, perhaps brought on by the original cancer, but more importantly perhaps she has recently had a mastectomy due to a cancer not related to her original condition. Would througth out all this would the private insurance have continued to cover her?

The NHS has its faults but it has been brilliant for her.

Brian

 

[ChipperT]

This is a question I tried to get an answer on on a previous thread about US health care, but the private health care advocates did not respond.

I asked because my wife was diagnosed with a cancer back in '92, since then she has also had stents for heart desease and now has a lung problem, perhaps brought on by the original cancer, but more importantly perhaps she has recently had a mastectomy due to a cancer not related to her original condition. Would througth out all this would the private insurance have continued to cover her?

The NHS has its faults but it has been brilliant for her.

Brian

What are the faults you see in teh NHS? I truly want to learn the good and bad. All we hear in the US is how bad Nationalized Health Care is in other countries and why we don't want it. I fear that is mostly spin and I want the truth from people who have to live with those systems daily.

 

[Vassago]

The only complaints I have ever heard about Nationalized Health Care are the same complaints people have here already. There are long wait times at the ER, taxes are higher (which the cost of medical procedures and private insurance obviously make up for), sometimes hard to get a close appointment, etc... We have the same issues. I don't understand what all the fuss is about a Nationalized Health Care program.

The only thing I don't like about the Obama-Care package is the forced insurance. They shouldn't force you to buy from a private company. That's unconstitutional.

 

[SimonB1978]

Here in Quebec, the health system is a Province thing. It costs a LOT of money. If I remember correctly it is around 42% of the province's budget. Sure, anybody can get about any treatment for "free". Since it all runs on "alloted budget", you will sometimes have to wait a long time for something that is not an emergency. As an example, I got a call last week for a consult in genetics (still trying to figure why, I think my file got switched with someone else's). Although there is no rush to it, my appointment is on June 15th, and I'm in the top priority cases....

Another bad thing about that system is that some people (mainly poor or old) will go to the hospital without valid reason, and they cannot just throw them out, they need to see a doctor first. Depending on the time of month (welfare check are issued on the first) and what is on TV (!?!?) the number of patients will vary. On the papers last week was a women who went 42 times to the ER in the last couple of years.... still with no diagnosis.

As anything that is state-governed, bureaucracy becomes heavy. There is about 1 administrative employee (from secretary to chairmen) for each care-giver (nurse, doctor, etc). There are lots of useless administrative levels such as the agencies, which no one can explain their purposes, still the administrators get bonuses each year...

For the record, my GF works in an hospital as well as other family members, so this is not hear-say.

I'm not saying the a Nationalized Health Care is a bad thing per se, but you have to be careful as to where the money is really going. Our system needs serious overhaul, and the government keeps saying they "invest" in health but they are really throwing money in a bottom-less pit.

Approx figures of taxes: (income taxes % increase greatly with income, mine being very sligthly over average)
Fed income: ~15%
Prov. income: ~20%
Fed sale: 5%
Prov sale: 8.5% (calculated on top of 5%)

You also need to consider that this health system does not cover glasses, dentist, etc. We still need to get a private insurance (most employers offer something) to get that covered, so add another 60-100$ / 2 weeks

 

[Brianwarnock]

What are the faults you see in teh NHS? I truly want to learn the good and bad. All we hear in the US is how bad Nationalized Health Care is in other countries and why we don't want it. I fear that is mostly spin and I want the truth from people who have to live with those systems daily.

The usual ones in any government run enterprise

1 Inefficient use of money, there have been numerous reports on how the NHS pays over the odds for medicines , equipment etc
2 Top heavy admin and management. If we have one complaint during the years of treatment it is the admin, from the booking of appointments to the loss (temp) of files, although the latter is not usually an issue now that the info is computerised!!
3 Long waits for non emergencies.
4 Old hospitals
5 poor food at times, but my wife had no complaints when in the Linda Macartney wing for 8 days recently.

But I cannot fault the medical care and the speed that they react to emergencies.

Simon made some very valid points about the issues that arise when treatment is free at the point of delivery.

Brian

 

[The_Doc_Man]

The real problem with private health care insurance is focus.

They SHOULD focus on the patients. They DO focus on making money for the shareholders. To me, one really BIG fix for insurance is to require ALL repeat ALL health insurance to be not-for-profit, no shareholders, no mad rush to boost the bottom line. That factor of private health insurance seems to me to be a conflict of interests.

 

[Rabbie]

What are the faults you see in teh NHS? I truly want to learn the good and bad. All we hear in the US is how bad Nationalized Health Care is in other countries and why we don't want it. I fear that is mostly spin and I want the truth from people who have to live with those systems daily.

The problem with the NHS is that medical care and treatments are continually getting more and more expensive. This means that an organisation set up in 1948 has a perpetual struggle to fund what it needs to do.

Because treatment is free at the point of delivery there tends to be a certain proportion of timewasters who make unnecessary visits to the doctor. Perhaps a small charge as is levied in other european countries(eg France, Sweden) with good public health care would be a good idea.

There is also a very large proportion of administrators. The recent proposed changes in the NHS will not save as much as forecast because there will be large redundancy payments and then people will be re-employed to do there old jobs.

 

[Brianwarnock]

Perhaps a small charge as is levied in other european countries(eg France, Sweden) with good public health care would be a good idea.

.

Is this charged on the first visit or if an illness is diagnosed on all subsequent visits as well.?

I would charge all drunks, say 2 times driving limit, full costs with a minimum of £20, and non life threatening treatment would only start after they have sobered up.

Brian

 

[Vassago]

Here's a question. If I were to visit England and have a medical emergency while I am there, would it be covered under your NHS or would I have to pay? Obviously, I don't pay taxes so haven't contributed to the national fund.

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

Is this charged on the first visit or if an illness is diagnosed on all subsequent visits as well.?

I would charge all drunks, say 2 times driving limit, full costs with a minimum of £20, and non life threatening treatment would only start after they have sobered up.

Brian

It would be unworkable.

 

[Brianwarnock]

It would be unworkable.

What and why?

 

[Brianwarnock]

Here's a question. If I were to visit England and have a medical emergency while I am there, would it be covered under your NHS or would I have to pay? Obviously, I don't pay taxes so haven't contributed to the national fund.

I'm not an expert on this, but as I understand it you will be treated just like anybody else, after I think they attempt to claim the costs, hopefully from travel insurance, but unlike some countries we English are tolerent to the point of being a soft touch and we will not incarcerate you until the money is paid.

Brian

 

[Steve R.]

I couldn't resist this story from the Onion.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Area Woman Marries Into Health Insurance

SAN FRANCISCO—The romantic motives of local woman Janet Debois, 28, came under scrutiny Sunday following accusations that she had only married Vince Davidson, 31, for his generous health insurance policy. "She wasn't even into Vince until he started flashing his Blue Cross/Blue Shield card around," said Carly Platt, a longtime acquaintance who speculated Debois might one day leave her new husband for an older man with a smaller co-pay. "You could just see the wheels turning in her head once she found out his dental plan covered twice-annual cleanings. Then it was a sprint to the altar." Sources close to Davidson confirmed that he is only getting married so he can use his wife as a tax write-off.

Yes this is a spoof, but it speaks to the fact that the health care system has reached a level of absurdity. Besides its a cold dreary rainy dare here. Getting back to the theme of this thread, I would like to hear more concerning how medical systems outside the US compare.

 

[ChipperT]

Here's a question. If I were to visit England and have a medical emergency while I am there, would it be covered under your NHS or would I have to pay? Obviously, I don't pay taxes so haven't contributed to the national fund.

From the experiences of a couple of acquaintances, you will be treated but they will send you a bill, which you can then forward to your insurance company (if any). But you are ultimately responsible for the bill, just like you are here in the US.