The One True Religion

[Matt Greatorex]

Who's god's neighbour by the way QUOTE]

Well, he seems to have a real problem with the guy downstairs

 

[nikkypickles]

From the tiny examples I remember seeing as I grew up, religion, when it was kept to the individual, was no bad thing. Only when it was put into the hands of those with power did it become corrupt and frightening.

I grew up going to school with a Jew and a Jehovah's Witness amongst other denominations. Neither were fanatical. They provided some interesting contributions to otherwise CoE-heavy Religious Studies lessons And they were as happy, as kind and as cruel (well, we were teenagers) as any of the rest of my classmates.

 

[ColinEssex]

And as I said before, when we live and act the way we do, then some one watching says to themselves, "if this is what it's all about, then no thanks."

which is exactly why I despise christianity. I couldn't live a two-faced life and decided I can be a better person and live a better life than many so called christians I had seen.

Before my comment gets branded / disregarded as "worthless" - I have had experience of this in many different ways and do know what I'm talking about.

Col

 

[ColinEssex]

From the tiny examples I remember seeing as I grew up, religion, when it was kept to the individual, was no bad thing. Only when it was put into the hands of those with power did it become corrupt and frightening.

I grew up going to school with a Jew and a Jehovah's Witness amongst other denominations. Neither were fanatical. They provided some interesting contributions to otherwise CoE-heavy Religious Studies lessons And they were as happy, as kind and as cruel (well, we were teenagers) as any of the rest of my classmates.

steady Nikky remember the force!! its very strong

Col

 

[Rich]

Of course.

That's the bit that I have a problem with, so in theory one could kill one's own children if God ordered them to do so?

 

[ShaneMan]

which is exactly why I despise christianity. I couldn't live a two-faced life and decided I can be a better person and live a better life than many so called christians I had seen.

Before my comment gets branded / disregarded as "worthless" - I have had experience of this in many different ways and do know what I'm talking about.

Col

I still can't disagree, but three words you used I think are key "so called Christians." This would open up a whole other can of worms that I don't want to dive into, but I do think there are way too many people who are Christians in name only. My mom use to say to me, when I was a teenager (unfortunately, way too often) "boy, don't say a word to me cause your actions are speaking louder than your words." On the other hand. I know a great deal of people ( a lot of them personally) that do live the life and there is a distict difference is saying your something and living that something.

 

[jsanders]

which is exactly why I despise christianity. I couldn't live a two-faced life and decided I can be a better person and live a better life than many so called christians I had seen.

Before my comment gets branded / disregarded as "worthless" - I have had experience of this in many different ways and do know what I'm talking about.

Col

Would it be proper for a person to…lets say hate (despise) all Muslims because some of them are terrorist?

How about if we just expand it a little, maybe we can despise all the Middle East.

During WWII, it was common practice to view the Japanese as less than human because they did this or they did that. They must not be human because they send their sons to die in kamikaze missions, and instead of surrendering they commit suicide. Etc.

As we have lived with them (the Japanese) for the last 60 years we have discovered more similarities than differences.

Now here’s the part that continues to bewilder me about you and Rich. There is a custom in certain parts of Iraq to honor kill your daughter, sister, or cousin, for being kidnapped; because maybe she got raped. And as such, would bring dishonor to her father.

Can you imagine any circumstance where a father would kill his own daughter? Yet all I hear from you guys is how much we are at fault for worshipping Christ. And in every case, when it comes to the Middle East, the United States is the hated party.

 

[ShaneMan]

That's the bit that I have a problem with, so in theory one could kill one's own children if God ordered them to do so?

In theory, "yes." If you want to go further than that see Isaac and Jacob (in the Old Testament) for an example. God stopped Isaac from going through with it and the story goes much too deep to try and explain in a forum, but before someone runs with the story. Sacrificing Jacob was not the point. Isaac's faith was and the end result was the sacrifice did not happen.

 

[jsanders]

Here’s a question for all of the atheists amongst us.

Have you ever known a non-believer alcoholic, to get sober and stay that way his (her) entire life?

 

[Matt Greatorex]

That's the bit that I have a problem with, so in theory one could kill one's own children if God ordered them to do so?

I vaguely remember something about, if your son is lazy and disobedient, you are supposed to get the men of your town to stone him to death? I may be remembering incorrectly, as it's been a while since I went to Sunday school. It was somewhere near the bit about cutting off your wife's hand for having done/not done something or other.

 

[Matt Greatorex]

Here’s a question for all of the atheists amongst us.

Have you ever known a non-believer alcoholic, to get sober and stay that way his (her) entire life?

Thus far, yes. Whether he'll ever slip is anyone's guess, but the same could be said for a religious person, surely?

 

[KalelGmoon]

Here’s a question for all of the atheists amongst us.

Have you ever known a non-believer alcoholic, to get sober and stay that way his (her) entire life?

Am not an Atheist but I think what Jsanders is trying to get at is that one of the big steps int he 12 step substance abuse program is a belief in God. I dont know if it has to be Christian, but alot of them I know beleive that. I had a prof in school who was a social worker and he did alot of work with kids, teens and younger, and alot of them had substance abuse problems. and one of them he said he was an atheist, but that step he used science as his God. if I remember right.

 

[jsanders]

Thus far, yes. Whether he'll ever slip is anyone's guess, but the same could be said for a religious person, surely?

Maybe, but look this up, AA has the highest success rate of any program in the world. And their program is based on admitting that your problem is bigger than yourself; and to turn to a higher power.

I am not a religious person, yet I rarely experience moments of no faith. And by the way I have an IQ considerably higher than a rock.

 

[ColinEssex]

Would it be proper for a person to…lets say hate (despise) all Muslims because some of them are terrorist?

If you mean me - you're not backing me down that alley Jenny.

I am not familiar enough to comment on Muslim religion or its followers. I do however know about christianity and its "followers".

Col

 

[nikkypickles]

That's the bit that I have a problem with, so in theory one could kill one's own children if God ordered them to do so?

If I remember RS - Abraham was going to...

 

[KenHigg]

..Before my comment gets branded / disregarded as "worthless" - I have had experience of this in many different ways and do know what I'm talking about.

Col

That's funny... You're really hung up on this 'worthless' thing aren't you...

Don't worry - no one has to brand your comment as worthless, they're pretty much taken at face value as that -

Having a bad day pal?

 

[Rich]

In theory, "yes." If you want to go further than that see Isaac and Jacob (in the Old Testament) for an example. God stopped Isaac from going through with it and the story goes much too deep to try and explain in a forum, but before someone runs with the story. Sacrificing Jacob was not the point. Isaac's faith was and the end result was the sacrifice did not happen.

But it could have because he was prepared to put his love for his God before that of his own child. Now call me an atheist if you like but my children and Grandchildren come before anybody and I don't need to go into a building full of icons to remind me or them of it.

 

[Matt Greatorex]

Maybe, but look this up, AA has the highest success rate of any program in the world. And their program is based on admitting that your problem is bigger than yourself; and to turn to a higher power.

AA is also, unless I'm mistaken, by far the biggest alcohol dependency help group in the world. More members joining means word of mouth encourages yet more to join. If people expect someting to be a success, it very often is. Incidentally, if one of the steps involved wearing ski goggles, I couldn't claim that it was a deciding factor in people's success.

I've known a few people go through AA and stop drinking but in no way has that changed their belief, or lack thereof, in a higher power. The support of the other members of the group was what helped them.

I am not a religious person, yet I rarely experience moments of no faith. And by the way I have an IQ considerably higher than a rock.

I fail to see how I implied otherwise, but if I did I apologise.

 

[ShaneMan]

I vaguely remember something about, if your son is lazy and disobedient, you are supposed to get the men of your town to stone him to death? I may be remembering incorrectly, as it's been a while since I went to Sunday school. It was somewhere near the bit about cutting off your wife's hand for having done/not done something or other.

Your memory is a little off but do bear in mind that where you are quoting from is in the law of the Old Testament. The Old Testament, basically is Jewish history. When Jesus Christ came he said that He fulfilled the Law. Bottom line. Old Testament is trying to live by the Law. The New Testament is living by grace (meaning unmerited favor). It's a new covenant. All that being said. Christians are not instructed to stone disobediant children.

 

[Rich]

Maybe, but look this up, AA has the highest success rate of any program in the world. And their program is based on admitting that your problem is bigger than yourself; and to turn to a higher power.

I am not a religious person, yet I rarely experience moments of no faith. And by the way I have an IQ considerably higher than a rock.

I'm sure I've pointed this out to you before but the AA over here use willpower and not some fairytale