The Qur'an (2 Viewers)

[The_Doc_Man]

Makes me wonder what they would say if we named a dog Muhammad?

 

[Mike Krailo]

We have lgbq… with dogs now?

I just realized what you meant. I'm a little slow.

 

[aziz rasul]

Ain't gonna happen.

29. And they say, "There is none but our worldly life, and we will not be resurrected."
30. If you could but see when they will be made to stand before their Lord. He will say, "Is this not the truth?" They will say, "Yes, by our Lord." He will [then] say, "So taste the punishment because you used to disbelieve."
Qur’an 6:29-30

Jon
Kaafirs will only go to HELL because they rejected God knowing He exists. We have been given free will to decide. God is Just, He won't punish anyone unless they deserve it. There is only one religion that God gave to mankind from the time of Adam which all the Prophets followed including Moses and Jesus.
Yes, You deserve a life of unbearable suffering for an eternity when you die if you REJECTED God.

The_Doc_Man
On the Day of Judgement, it will be God who will judge you and everyone. It's God who will judge who ACCEPTED God and who REJECTED God, KNOWING He existed. You won't have a say in the matter.
Jesus also SUBMITTED to One God in His Oneness so there is no difference.

 

[aziz rasul]

In Islam, we believe there is an external entity or universal Creator, who we call God, who has no gender, who is outside His creation e.g. the universe(s) and has certain attributes e.g.

No Beginning, No End, Uncreated

Self-Sufficient, Independent

All Powerful, All Knowing, All Seeing, All Hearing

Most Merciful, Most Loving

Has no partners or associates e.g., is not begotten nor does He beget, no children, does not resemble His creation, etc.

 

[aziz rasul]

The name of God is

Eloha (Hebrew) or
Alaha (Syriac Aramaic) or
Elahi (Aramaic) or
Allaah (Arabic)

The SAME God but a change in language changes the name slightly. God is also referred to in the Majestic form.

So the God of Adam is the SAME God of Abraham, Moses, David, Jesus and Muhammad (peace be upon them).

 

[aziz rasul]

God sent SCRIPTURE to some Prophets.

Ibrahim (Abraham) - Souhouf (the Scrolls) in Hebrew

Musa (Moses) - Taurat (the Torah or the Law) & the Ten Commandments both in Hebrew

Dawud (David) - Zabur (the Psalms) in Hebrew

Isa (Jesus – son of Mary) - Injil, in Aramaic

Muhammad (the Seal of the Prophets) - Qur’an, in Arabic

 

[aziz rasul]

The message of Islam was given and followed by ALL the PROPHETS.

And We sent not before you any messenger except that We revealed to him (MUHAMMAD) that, "There is no deity except Me, so worship Me."
Qur’an 21:25

And We have not sent you, [O Muhammad], except as a mercy to the worlds.
Qur’an 21:107

See also Exodus 20:3, Deuteronomy 5:7

84. We gave him (ABRAHAM) ISAAC and JACOB: all (three) guided: and before him, We guided NOAH, and among his progeny, DAVID, SOLOMON, JOB, JOSEPH, MOSES, and AARON: thus do We reward those who do good:

85. And ZAKARIYA and JOHN, and JESUS and ELIAS: all in the ranks of the righteous:

86. And ISMA'IL and ELISHA, and JONAS, and LOT: and to all We gave favour above the nations:

87. (To them) and to their fathers, and progeny and brethren: We chose them, and we guided them to a straight way.

88. This is the guidance of Allaah: He giveth that guidance to whom He pleaseth, of His worshippers. If they were to join other gods with Him, all that they did would be vain for them.]/b]
Qur’an 6:84-88

 

[aziz rasul]

25 Prophets of Allaah, as Mentioned in the Qur’an

Adam (first prophet of Islam)
Idris (Enoch – great great grandson of Adam)
Nuh (Noah)
Hud (Heber - great great grandson of Nuh)
Salih (Shelah)
Ibrahim (Abraham)
[Received the Souhouf (the Scrolls) in Hebrew]
Isma’il (Ishmael – eldest son of Ibrahim)
Is’haq (Isaac – youngest son of Ibrahim)
Lut (Lot – nephew of Ibrahim)
Ya’qub (Jacob – son of Is’haq)
Yusuf (Joseph – eldest son of Ya’qub, through Rachel)
Shu’aib (Jethro)
Ayub (Job)
Musa (Moses)
[Received the Taurat (the Torah or the Law) & the Ten Commandments both in Hebrew]
Harun (Aaron – elder brother of Musa)
Dhu’l-kifl (Ezekiel)
Dawud (David)
[Received the Zabur (the Psalms) in Hebrew]
Suliman (Solomon – son of Dawud)
Ilias (Elias)
Al-Yasa (Elisha)
Yunus (Jonah)
Zakariyah (Zechariah)
Yahya (John – son of Zakariyah)
Isa (Jesus – son of Maryam(Mary))
[Received the Injil, in Aramaic]
Muhammad (the Seal of the Prophets)
[Received the Qur’an, in Arabic]
(Peace and Allaah’s blessings be upon them all)

 

[aziz rasul]

But those who believe in Allaah and His Messengers and make no distinction between any of them, unto them Allaah will give their wages; and Allaah was ever Forgiving, Merciful.
Qur’an - SURAH AN-NISAA’ (THE WOMEN) 4:152

“I am most close to Jesus, son of Mary, among the whole of mankind in this worldly life and the next life. They said: Allaah's Messenger how is it? Thereupon he said: Prophets are brothers in faith, having different mothers. Their religion is, however, one and there is no Apostle between us (between I and Jesus Christ).”
A SAYING OF PROPHET MUHAMMAD (PEACE BE UPON HIM) - SAHIH MUSLIM BOOK 30, NUMBER 5836

Mary (the mother of Jesus) is the only woman’s name mentioned in the Qur’an and the 19th chapter is named Mary.

And (mention) when the angels said, ‘O Mary, indeed God has chosen you, purified you, and chosen you above the women of the worlds.’ ‘O Mary, be devoutly obedient to your Lord and prostrate and bow down along those who bow down (in prayer).’ That is from the news of the unseen which We reveal to you, [O Muhammad]. And you were not with them when they cast their pens as to which of them should be responsible for Mary. Nor were you with them when they disputed.”
Qur’an 3:42-44

Adam (peace be upon him) was also created by the command (word) of Allaah.

Indeed, the example of Jesus to Allaah is like that of Adam. He created Him from dust; then He SAID to him, “Be,” and he was.
Qur’an 3:59

He has ordained for you of religion what He enjoined upon Noah and that which We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what We enjoined upon Abraham and Moses and Jesus - to establish the religion and not be divided therein. Difficult for those who associate others with Allah is that to which you invite them. Allah chooses for Himself whom He wills and guides to Himself whoever turns back [to Him].
Qur’an 42:13

 

[aziz rasul]

All the previous Prophets were sent to a SPECIFIC group of people or nation e.g.

Jesus (peace be upon him) came to the lost sheep of the house of Israel i.e., the Jews who had fallen away. Matthew 15:24 (He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”). See also Matthew 10:5-6

Muhammad (peace be upon him) was the Seal of the Prophets and was sent for all MANKIND.

158. Say, [O Muhammad], "O MANKIND, indeed I am the Messenger of Allaah TO YOU ALL, [from Him] to whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth. There is no deity except Him; He gives life and causes death." So believe in Allaah and His Messenger, the unlettered prophet, who believes in Allaah and His words, and follow him that you may be guided.

159. And among the PEOPLE of Moses is a community which guides by truth and by it, establishes justice.
Qur’an 7:158-159 SEE ALSO Qur’an 21:107

 

[aziz rasul]

Previous Prophets prayed like Muslims pray today i.e. by prostrating to the ground, taught by Muhammad (peace be upon him).

Abraham – Genesis 17:3

Moses – Exodus 34:8

Jesus - Matthew 26:39

Or were you witnesses when death approached Jacob, when he said to his sons, "What will you worship after me?" They said, "We will worship your God and the God of your fathers, Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac - one God. And we are Muslims [in submission] to Him."
Qur’an 2:133

 

[aziz rasul]

The Messenger of Allaah, peace and blessings be upon him, said,

“Whoever testifies that there is no God but Allaah alone without any partners,

that Muhammad is His servant and His messenger,

that Jesus is the servant of Allaah and His messenger,

His word which He bestowed upon Mary and a Spirit (angel Gabriel) from Him,

and that Paradise is the truth and Hellfire is the truth,

then Allaah will admit him into Paradise by whatever good deeds he had done.”

SAHIH AL-BUKHARI 3435, SAHIH MUSLIM 28

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Is this going to be an endless disgorgement of quotes about hellfire and damnation? You are getting boring trying to repeat your message. I don't speak for Jon who owns the forum, but I know he doesn't share your beliefs. If all you are going to do is spout religious mantras and (rather boringly, mind numbingly repetitious) passages from Islamic books, you will lose your audience. Since you have the right to believe as you do, I'm not about to take this thread down or close it without consensus from Jon and the moderators. But at some point, the law of diminishing returns would probably apply. Your efforts are mostly wasted here given the constrained audience.

Just understand, Aziz, that about 1200 religious denominations in the USA, mostly Christian, would say that YOU are the one going to Hell because YOU don't accept Jesus as YOUR savior. And here we all are trying to decide which religious person is the raving lunatic and which one actually knows something. All you have proved so far is that you can type.

 

[Galaxiom]

Aziz is a great example of the mental illness that is religion.

 

[ColinEssex]

Aziz is a great example of the mental illness that is religion.

And is also a great example of how wars start leading to the death of 10's of thousands of innocent people.
Col

 

[Isaac]

Is this going to be an endless disgorgement of quotes about hellfire and damnation? You are getting boring trying to repeat your message. I don't speak for Jon who owns the forum, but I know he doesn't share your beliefs. If all you are going to do is spout religious mantras and (rather boringly, mind numbingly repetitious) passages from Islamic books, you will lose your audience. Since you have the right to believe as you do, I'm not about to take this thread down or close it without consensus from Jon and the moderators. But at some point, the law of diminishing returns would probably apply. Your efforts are mostly wasted here given the constrained audience.

Just understand, Aziz, that about 1200 religious denominations in the USA, mostly Christian, would say that YOU are the one going to Hell because YOU don't accept Jesus as YOUR savior. And here we all are trying to decide which religious person is the raving lunatic and which one actually knows something. All you have proved so far is that you can type.

I see no reason to forcibly shut down Aziz. We have many threads of a totally ridiculous nature going on ranging from humor to political debates that are in the 100's of pages. At one point we spent 3 pages trying to figure out if Col was allowed to say some racial term or not. I mean really - but those threads are fine too, it's the watercooler, easily ignored.

If you don't like it, don't read it- and nobody is forcing you to respond to it, remember that.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I will give Aziz credit for being devoted to his religion. However, that religion contains the seeds of its own economic demise. I wonder how really great those Islamic nations feel as they see other countries with more modern viewpoints bypassing them economically and politically.

This morning I saw a news article about some young Muslim girls who are graduating from sixth grade, which was bittersweet for them as it meant their education was over under strict Islamic dogma. Or at least, the Taliban claims that to be the case. So you stop educating about 50% of your population and keep them repressed with clothing and movement restrictions, including being forbidden to drive in some Islamic states, all to keep them ready for a lifetime of servitude to Muslim men. Yep, that should be great for your economy.

Islam requires adherents to stop what they are doing five times a day to pray. Businesses stop what they are doing. Foreign businesses must make allowances for inefficient work days. They even have to set aside places of prayer, thus tying up office space resources that otherwise could be used for meetings. And the prayer periods have a prescribed duration based on the number of repetitions for each prayer. Yep, that really makes employers happy to have so many Muslims on staff.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I see no reason to forcibly shut down Aziz.

That is what I said would not happen unless the moderators got together to decide it should be shut down. I just don't want Aziz to babble on mindlessly without getting notice that we are unpleasantly aware of his presence. I have many reasons for this.

As a moderator, I have a duty to look at unpleasant, long-winded posts to check for violations of policy. And you know I will not hesitate to call folks down when that happens.

As a man of non-trivial levels of education, I have a societal duty to call down some posts that substitute mindless repetition for focused reasoning. Religion's repetitious chants, mantras, and cyclic prayers are the antithesis of rational thinking.

As an atheist, I have a duty to inject alternate viewpoints in religious diatribes. I think it necessary to remind people that their explanations of why things happen are not quite so widely accepted as they might first think. And in that role, I must remind folks of the non-logic of their statements in that regard.

As a person of social responsibility, I must remember that in the lead-up to WW II, nobody complained about mistreatment and persecution of certain ethnic groups - which led to the Holocaust. Elie Wiesel's short poem should be a reminder. “First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists, but I was neither, so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out. And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me.”

Perhaps, Isaac, that will give you some insight as to why I do what I do.

 

[ColinEssex]

Islam requires adherents to stop what they are doing five times a day to pray.

I heard that Americans pray and give thanks before every meal - imagine praying 9 times a day.
Col

 

[AccessBlaster]

I heard that Americans pray and give thanks before every meal - imagine praying 9 times a day.
Col

We also brush our teeth and go to the dentist.