Throw the bums out

[Alisa]

They probably wouldn't need to be if we limited spending to what's in the Constitution.

Or if we could all get in our time machines and travel back to the 18th century

 

[pbaldy]

I'm leaving for lunch and errands soon. If history is any indication, this thread will have added so many posts that I won't have time to catch up. I apologize in advance if I seem to ignore anybody, but I'm sure others will pick up the slack for me.

 

[Banana]

You mean the part where it says wages shouldn't be taxed?

Hey, don't move the goalpost. Just before you were railing for progressive taxation and less military spending. Now you're appealing to Constitution for arguing *against* taxation (however it may be implemented) while ducking the question about defense being one of Federal government's enumerated power in Constitution.

This is exactly why I said it would go nowhere- it's pure partianship without thinking critically about the whole picture. I can't tell difference between partisans and sport fans complete with face paints and giant #1 hand. Seriously.

 

[Alisa]

This is a question to all of you that rail against progressive taxation:
By what criteria do you judge the success of a country as a whole? What country do you consider to have the most successful economic system (current or historical)?

 

[Alisa]

Hey, don't move the goalpost. Just before you were railing for progressive taxation and less military spending. Now you're appealing to Constitution for arguing *against* taxation (however it may be implemented) while ducking the question about defense being one of Federal government's enumerated power in Constitution.

This is exactly why I said it would go nowhere- it's pure partianship without thinking critically about the whole picture. I can't tell difference between partisans and sport fans complete with face paints and giant #1 hand. Seriously.

First of all, I have not made any posts argueing for less military spending. As for taxation, I think that wages should not be taxed at all - property should be taxed, capital gains should be taxed, net business profit should be taxed, stock dividends should be taxed. But the wages of working people should not be taxed. Now, given that the system we have now DOES tax wages, those taxes should be progressive, since wages are income that people actually NEED to live on, as opposed to other kinds of income.

 

[pbaldy]

It's funny how you support the Constitution when it's convenient, but not when it runs counter to what you want.

 

[Alisa]

It's funny how you support the Constitution when it's convenient, but not when it runs counter to what you want.

How do I not support the constitution?

 

[Rich]

Our military became the laughing stock of the world under Carter

And it didn't do any better under Raygun

Arms, including Hawk missiles, were sold to Iran via Israel (at a time when the USA was publicly calling for a worldwide ban on sending arms to Iran), violating the law prohibiting the sale of US weapons for resale to a third country listed as a ‘terrorist nation’, as well as the law requiring sales above $14 million to be reported to Congress.

 

[Rich]

McCain said it straight out in the first or second debate (my memory fails me right now).

.

And of course McCain cited the case of Joe the plumber who got Obama to admit that tax would rise by 3% for those earning over $250,000, Joe was most upset since he said he wanted to buy his employers firm with a profit of that amount.It turns out that Joe owes $1200 to the taxman, doesn't have a plumbers license and hasn't a hope in hell of buying out the firm in the first place, so much for McCain's research department.
Next he'll be telling us there are WMD's still in Iraq and producing further concoted evidence to support it

 

[Alisa]

And of course McCain cited the case of Joe the plumber who got Obama to admit that tax would rise by 3% for those earning over $250,000, Joe was most upset since he said he wanted to buy his employers firm with a profit of that amount.It turns out that Joe owes $1200 to the taxman, doesn't have a plumbers license and hasn't a hope in hell of buying out the firm in the first place, so much for McCain's research department.
Next he'll be telling us there are WMD's still in Iraq and producing further concoted evidence to support it

You forgot the best part - "Joe" the "plumber" would actually benefit from Obama's tax plan, seeing as how he makes under 250k per year.

 

[Rich]

You forgot the best part - "Joe" the "plumber" would actually benefit from Obama's tax plan, seeing as how he makes under 250k per year.

He's worried in case he wins a lottery and can afford to buy the firm, of course why he would bother after winning so much in the first place beggars belief

 

[redneckgeek]

And of course McCain cited the case of Joe the plumber who got Obama to admit that tax would rise by 3% for those earning over $250,000, Joe was most upset since he said he wanted to buy his employers firm with a profit of that amount.It turns out that Joe owes $1200 to the taxman, doesn't have a plumbers license and hasn't a hope in hell of buying out the firm in the first place, so much for McCain's research department.

That's all propaganda put out by the plumbers union. They're just pissed cause he's not a member. Buncha thugs...

You only need a license if you own the business. He doesn't own the business yet. How do you know he doesn't have a hope in hell of buying the business. This all happened about 10 minutes from where I'm sitting now. The guy's been all over the local news. His boss is in the process of retiring, and he's working out the deal with Joe.

As far as owing $1200 goes.... GOOD FOR HIM! I try to avoid paying taxes at every turn, too. If the government gets to concerned about it, they'll garnish his wages.

 

[georgedwilkinson]

FAs for taxation, I think that wages should not be taxed at all - property should be taxed, capital gains should be taxed, net business profit should be taxed, stock dividends should be taxed. But the wages of working people should not be taxed. Now, given that the system we have now DOES tax wages, those taxes should be progressive, since wages are income that people actually NEED to live on, as opposed to other kinds of income.

Almost every old person I know lives off of income from their stock and bond portfolio. They need that money...they are on the edge of poverty. And they worked hard, and paid taxes while doing it, to accumulate enough wealth to provide them their pitiful retirement incomes.

So you're saying that you shouldn't tax their income when they're young and strong but should wait until they're old and weak?

Are you sure that's the position you want to take?

 

[Rich]

That's all propaganda put out by the plumbers union. They're just pissed cause he's not a member. Buncha thugs...

You only need a license if you own the business. He doesn't own the business yet. How do you know he doesn't have a hope in hell of buying the business. This all happened about 10 minutes from where I'm sitting now. The guy's been all over the local news. His boss is in the process of retiring, and he's working out the deal with Joe.

As far as owing $1200 goes.... GOOD FOR HIM! I try to avoid paying taxes at every turn, too. If the government gets to concerned about it, they'll garnish his wages.

So you think it fair that millions of Americans pay their tax on time and that this guy tries to get away with it

 

[redneckgeek]

You forgot the best part - "Joe" the "plumber" would actually benefit from Obama's tax plan, seeing as how he makes under 250k per year.

I can't find what Obama's tax plan really is. This is what I know now -
Bush's tax cut lowered my bracket by 3% (I'm less than $250k)
That will expire in 2010/11, unless Pelosi kills it on innauguration day.
So I go back up 3%. Is Obama going to lower me by... say... 4%?

I can't help but be skeptical.

 

[georgedwilkinson]

It turns out that Joe owes $1200 to the taxman,

It must be nice. I owe over $30K (2006 & 2008), paying it off in dribs and drabs.

$1200 is inconsequential for people who do contract work and is not an outrageous amount to be owed by a regular employee. I rack up that much in taxes (income and self-employment) in less than 2 weeks.

 

[georgedwilkinson]

So you think it fair that millions of Americans pay their tax on time and that this guy tries to get away with it

As mentioned earlier...it is a very small amount. I owe a lot and am not "trying to get away with it". And believe me, there are stiff penalties involved.

What nonsense.

 

[Rich]

It must be nice. I owe over $30K (2006 & 2008), paying it off in dribs and drabs.

$1200 is inconsequential for people who do contract work and is not an outrageous amount to be owed by a regular employee. I rack up that much in taxes (income and self-employment) in less than 2 weeks.

Pay it regularly George or put it aside in the bank where it'll earn you interest

 

[Alisa]

I can't find what Obama's tax plan really is. This is what I know now -
Bush's tax cut lowered my bracket by 3% (I'm less than $250k)
That will expire in 2010/11, unless Pelosi kills it on innauguration day.
So I go back up 3%. Is Obama going to lower me by... say... 4%?

I can't help but be skeptical.

He's got a calculator up on his website - why don't you go find out?

 

[Alisa]

Almost every old person I know lives off of income from their stock and bond portfolio. They need that money...they are on the edge of poverty. And they worked hard, and paid taxes while doing it, to accumulate enough wealth to provide them their pitiful retirement incomes.

So you're saying that you shouldn't tax their income when they're young and strong but should wait until they're old and weak?

Are you sure that's the position you want to take?

If your retirement income is all tied up in the stock market, that is scary - what if the market crashes and all of the sudden you have no income? The stock market is no place for money that people depend on. Retirement should be social security, savings, IRA's in money market accounts, things like that that can't vanish at the drop of a hat.