W

[Matt Greatorex]

My favorite quotes from it:

Someone should direct him to these forums.

.

Yes, I saw that one too.

One can only assume that he's referring to the difference between small, understandable, insignificant errors - such as the British make and which the Americans point out, in a rather petty, mean-spirited and pedantic manner - rather than huge, glaring, clearly careless mistakes - such as Americans make and which it is every British person's duty to helpfully comment on, in an attempt to educate

 

[ColinEssex]

Someone should direct him to these forums.

well someone has to pick up the baton and try to teach you the Queens (God bless her) English

Hear that kids? Politely and respecfully.

Yes, that was directed at Americans please note

Col

 

[ShaneMan]

well someone has to pick up the baton and try to teach you the Queens (God bless her) English



Yes, that was directed at Americans please note

Col

Col, just a curious question and it really is a curious question, not one with a agenda. I noticed that you and Rich both always put "God bless her" after everytime you say "the Queen", yet you don't believe there is a deity. Why is that? Is it just something that gets said, in England, anytime something is said about the Queen?

 

[nomorehype]

Yes, I saw that one too.

One can only assume that he's referring to the difference between small, understandable, insignificant errors - such as the British make and which the Americans point out, in a rather petty, mean-spirited and pedantic manner - rather than huge, glaring, clearly careless mistakes - such as Americans make and which it is every British person's duty to helpfully comment on, in an attempt to educate

Matt, youre as free as anyone else to disagree with my methods and/or points, but FWIW that was a brilliant post! But you owe me a new keyboard...

 

[Matt Greatorex]

Col, just a curious question and it really is a curious question, not one with a agenda. I noticed that you and Rich both always put "God bless her" after everytime you say "the Queen", yet you don't believe there is a deity. Why is that? Is it just something that gets said, in England, anytime something is said about the Queen?

I grew up hearing "I was talking to person's name (God Bless Her/Him) ..." used as a jokey expression, to mock the old tradition of saying it about royalty. I never heard anyone say it seriously. It was also regularly used to mean 'don't worry yourself', in the sense of

'Do you want me to get you anything from the shop'
'No, God bless you, I'm okay'

Out of the force of habit, I always use the shortened version 'Bless you' when someone sneezes (Black Death and all that), but I'm definitely an atheist.

I think it's the same way that - good or bad - Christmas now has little to do with religion for many people, it's just what the day's called. I suppose an analogy would be that I'm quite happy to call the day between Wednesday and Friday by it's common name, but I don't believe in the Norse gods, either.

 

[nomorehype]

... Queens (God bless her) English

Dead right. And correctly recognising the deity by capitalising the first letter - tut for Rich for getting it wrong yesterday

 

[ColinEssex]

Col, just a curious question and it really is a curious question, not one with a agenda. I noticed that you and Rich both always put "God bless her" after everytime you say "the Queen", yet you don't believe there is a deity. Why is that? Is it just something that gets said, in England, anytime something is said about the Queen?

As Matt says, its tradition, a sort of jokey thing.
Also as Matt says, religion has been dragged into the pagan celebrations on 25th December in an effort to steal the show by claiming it as "their" day. . . . .bloody cheek

Col

 

[ColinEssex]

Dead right. And correctly recognising the deity by capitalising the first letter

that was a keyboard error

Col

 

[Matt Greatorex]

As Matt says, its tradition, a sort of jokey thing.
Also as Matt says, religion has been dragged into the pagan celebrations on 25th December in an effort to steal the show by claiming it as "their" day. . . . .bloody cheek

Col

Col, don't know if you watched it, but I always remember that quote from Bottom.

The main characters find an abandoned basket with a baby in it on their doorstep Their three guests have brought gfts of a Frankenstein mask, some Terry's 'All Gold' and a bottle of aftershave called 'Grrrr'. Putting those with the fact that one character is a virgin, they assume it's the second coming. One of them comes out with:

"I'm not letting the arrival of the son of God spoil my Christmas"

 

[ShaneMan]

I grew up hearing "I was talking to person's name (God Bless Her/Him) ..." used as a jokey expression, to mock the old tradition of saying it about royalty. I never heard anyone say it seriously. It was also regularly used to mean 'don't worry yourself', in the sense of

'Do you want me to get you anything from the shop'
'No, God bless you, I'm okay'

Out of the force of habit, I always use the shortened version 'Bless you' when someone sneezes (Black Death and all that), but I'm definitely an atheist.

I think it's the same way that - good or bad - Christmas now has little to do with religion for many people, it's just what the day's called. I suppose an analogy would be that I'm quite happy to call the day between Wednesday and Friday by it's common name, but I don't believe in the Norse gods, either.

Thanks for taking the time to answer Matt and Col. Another question arises off of your answer Matt. Is atheism fairly common in UK? Is it more common in England than any of the other countries?

 

[Matt Greatorex]

Thanks for taking the time to answer Matt and Col. Another question arises off of your answer Matt. Is atheism fairly common in UK? Is it more common in England than any of the other countries?

Firstly, I'm not English, I'm Welsh. Both part of the UK, but decidedly different attitudes to certain things, which may or may not be relevant here. The people in the Welsh valleys have a tradition of being very regular church-goers, but I don't know if that still applies to the more recent generations.

I know (knew? It's been three years this weekend since I left the UK) plenty of people who go to church, but I didn't know anyone under 40 who did. Whether that's representative of a national trend, I couldn't say. Plus, maybe it's just a case of 'birds of a feather' and I didn't know people who went because I didn't go. After all, I knew a lot of people who were into nightclubbing, but if I hadn't been one I probably would have known a lot fewer.

There's also the fact that someone may well believe in God, just not go to church. Impossible to tell how many people I knew who fell into that category.

A week from this Thursday, I'm getting married , here in Canada. Our ceremony is deliberately non-religious as neither myself nor my fiancee are into it. A few of her friends are, however, so I've been warned to be on my best behaviour if anyone asks why we don't have any of that 'In the sight of God' stuff (I tend to get a bit wound up when anyone expects me to fall into line on that sort of thing and some - not all - of them get a bit insistent). 'Young' people going to church seems to be more prominent here in Ontario than it was back home.

As far as other countries are concerned, I honestly don't know. Some - Italy, Spain, Ireland - appear to have large church-going populations (based on what I've read and observed while travelling), but I've never seen any official statistics.

 

[nomorehype]

and I didn't know people who went because I didn't go.

Heh. Read that line back again - have you ever read the book "Eats shoots and leaves"?

 

[Matt Greatorex]

Heh. Read that line back again - have you ever read the book "Eats shoots and leaves"?

I'll bite, what's the problem with it?

 

[nomorehype]

Heh. Read that line back again - have you ever read the book "Eats shoots and leaves"?

For the benefit of any that haven't:
A panda goes into a restaurant and orders dinner. After completing his meal, he takes a gun from his pocket, fires it in the air, and makes for the door. The waiter stops him and says "What the hell did you do that for?" Panda looks at him and says "You know what I am, dont you? Look it up in the dictionary, fool. Panda: Eats shoots and leaves"
Yeah, I know, it isnt that funny. But in the context of the "I dont know people who didnt go because I didnt go" I thought if fit.

 

[nomorehype]

I'll bite, what's the problem with it?

Difficult to explain without the speech inflection, but I'll have a go...
"I didnt go to church, so I have no idea who did go" -v-
"Some people went to the church, because they knew I didnt go"

 

[Matt Greatorex]

For the benefit of any that haven't:
A panda goes into a restaurant and orders dinner. After completing his meal, he takes a gun from his pocket, fires it in the air, and makes for the door. The waiter stops him and says "What the hell did you do that for?" Panda looks at him and says "You know what I am, dont you? Look it up in the dictionary, fool. Panda: Eats shoots and leaves"
Yeah, I know, it isnt that funny. But in the context of the "I dont know people who didnt go because I didnt go" I thought if fit.

Oooookay, then..... moving swiftly on.....

I have read it, but I didn't make the connection. Have you read 'Eats shites and leaves'? Basically points out a lot of the inconsistencies of the English language in a humorous way. The one that stuck in my mind was about the whole 'not ending a sentence with a preposition' thing that I was taught was a rule. Apparently it was started by someone - a bishop, I think - who didn't like the practise. It was then adopted by more and more people and is now commonly believed to be a grammatical rule, when it actually isnt.

 

[ShaneMan]

Firstly, I'm not English, I'm Welsh. Both part of the UK, but decidedly different attitudes to certain things, which may or may not be relevant here. The people in the Welsh valleys have a tradition of being very regular church-goers, but I don't know if that still applies to the more recent generations.

I know (knew? It's been three years this weekend since I left the UK) plenty of people who go to church, but I didn't know anyone under 40 who did. Whether that's representative of a national trend, I couldn't say. Plus, maybe it's just a case of 'birds of a feather' and I didn't know people who went because I didn't go. After all, I knew a lot of people who were into nightclubbing, but if I hadn't been one I probably would have known a lot fewer.

There's also the fact that someone may well believe in God, just not go to church. Impossible to tell how many people I knew who fell into that category.

A week from this Thursday, I'm getting married , here in Canada. Our ceremony is deliberately non-religious as neither myself nor my fiancee are into it. A few of her friends are, however, so I've been warned to be on my best behaviour if anyone asks why we don't have any of that 'In the sight of God' stuff (I tend to get a bit wound up when anyone expects me to fall into line on that sort of thing and some - not all - of them get a bit insistent). 'Young' people going to church seems to be more prominent here in Ontario than it was back home.

As far as other countries are concerned, I honestly don't know. Some - Italy, Spain, Ireland - appear to have large church-going populations (based on what I've read and observed while travelling), but I've never seen any official statistics.

Once again, thanks for taking time to answer. First of all, congrads on getting married. I've just been curious to ask but really didn't know how to go about it without it stirring up a big dust cloud and it being off topic in no time. I've read quite abit on church history (mostly British authors ) and have been curious to how Britian feels about it today. It seems the majority of folks that I have met, from Britian, either believe little about a God or do not believe in one at all. This seems some what ironic to me cause Britian, especially England, sent more missionaries out, than any country in history, at one point in time.

 

[Matt Greatorex]

Once again, thanks for taking time to answer. First of all, congrads on getting married. I've just been curious to ask but really didn't know how to go about it without it stirring up a big dust cloud and it being off topic in no time. I've read quite abit on church history (mostly British authors ) and have been curious to how Britian feels about it today. It seems the majority of folks that I have met, from Britian, either believe little about a God or do not believe in one at all. This seems some what ironic to me cause Britian, especially England, sent more missionaries out, than any country in history, at one point in time.

I know it's impossible to be sure, since things are very different to how they were, but it wouldn't surprise me if the US went the same way, over the next century or two. Please note that this has just occurred to me, so i'm sure there are glaring gaps in it, as a theory, but bear with me - Maybe it's a stage of development?

That's not to say the we are more highly developed than you are (since that goes without saying ), just that the society is a lot older and is 'further along the track', if you like.

If you look back at the Romans, they were by far the biggest force in the Western world. They went through a phase where Christianity was passionately followed, then they died out.

The Dutch had a big missionary phase, while they were hugely into import/export, now they aren't a force to contend with.

We (the British) went off to fight for God during the crusades, then sent out our missionaries around the same time our navy pretty much ruled the Western world. Now - while we've hardly died out as a nation - we have much less influence that we did.

The Spanish in the Americas went much the same way.

I'm sure there are plenty of other examples. Perhaps the US is next?

Get big, push 'your' method of worship onto other countries, get weaker, watch as someone else does the same. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Not intended as an insult, just an observation.

 

[ShaneMan]

That's not to say the we are more highly developed than you are (since that goes without saying ), just that the society is a lot older and is 'further along the track', if you like. .

That's what we keep hearing out of you folks. Kind of falls in the category of "I wish I could buy you for what you were worth and sell you for what you thought you were worth...and then retire."

If you look back at the Romans, they were by far the biggest force in the Western world. They went through a phase where Christianity was passionately followed, then they died out.

I really don't think Christianity was followed by the Romans. They worshipped many gods and put Christians to death by the thousands.

We (the British) went off to fight for God during the crusades, then sent out our missionaries around the same time our navy pretty much ruled the Western world. Now - while we've hardly died out as a nation - we have much less influence that we did.

I think, more specifically, your crusades consisted of going off to kill Jews and then later involved killing protestants. Missionaries being sent out were mainly catholic (Angelican), however at a certain point, the reformers were fleeing from Britian, to save their lives, and settling in other countries, which I guess turned out to be a form of being missionaries.

The Spanish in the Americas went much the same way.

I'm sure there are plenty of other examples. Perhaps the US is next?

Get big, push 'your' method of worship onto other countries, get weaker, watch as someone else does the same. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Not intended as an insult, just an observation.

No insult taken. I can certainly see the pattern that your pointing to and of course I would have a little different explaination off of that. I do not disagree in any way that many wars and many people have died in the name of someone's God, but I always factor in that people are human and they make God out to be what they want Him to be but that may not be the God that really is. (no matter what God someone professes to believe in), so folks could kill and start wars, in His Name, but that may not be a representation of this God at all. Hope that makes sense. I'm really not trying to push a point. You said something about that a few post back about getting wound up when someone does that. I just think it's interesting conversation as long as the parties involved stay on course and not throw digs in. I, personally, have only met a couple people to profess to not believe in God, so it's interesting to me to find out how people get to the point of believing what they believe.

 

[Matt Greatorex]

I think, more specifically, your crusades consisted of going off to kill Jews[

To start with, we went to kill Muslims (the Jews had been getting their own trouble from Caliph Hakim, as had the Christians). We did end up killing a lot of Jews, but it wasn't the primary aim.

I really don't think Christianity was followed by the Romans. They worshipped many gods and put Christians to death by the thousands.

Towards the end of the empire, NOT being a christian was enough to get you killed.

http://www.fsmitha.com/h1/ch23.htm

See the section headed 'Christian Success and Martyrdom'.

"I wish I could buy you for what you were worth and sell you for what you thought you were worth...and then retire."

Don't see how, as you'd be breaking even?