What is the universe expanding into? (1 Viewer)

[Jon]

I would like to know. Any ideas?

 

[The_Doc_Man]

The cosmologists claim that it isn't expanding into anything. I have no idea how that can be, but that is what they tell us. Einstein suggested that space and time didn't really exist until the universe was formed by energy converting to matter after the Big Bang. If there was no space and time outside of the context of the bang then I'm not sure that the word "into" has any possible meaning in that question. For that matter, "before" has no meaning if applied to the bang.

 

[Jon]

If there was nothing before the bang, does that mean there was a God, and that the universe is expanding into God's territory?

 

[Steve R.]

To (butcher) paraphrase a quote from an unknown source: "The probability that the Universe exploded into existence from some infinitesimally small point would be the same as the existence of God".

PS: Since posting, I recall the context of that quote. A person was asked if God exists. The person went on to say yes, but also added that those who believe in the "Big Bang" shouldn't dismiss the existence of God.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

What it means more literally is that we are in a "bubble" of space-time (called the universe) and it prevents us from seeing certain things. Our view has been obscured by all the schmutz in the way. But that is OK. Man has LONG known that he is the center of the known universe even before the advent of telescopes. We figured that out in our supreme arrogance long ago. Only know with the rise of cosmologic science have we actually started to learn a few more interesting things.

By the way, we really ARE the center of the known universe. (Key word is "known.")

We only know what we can see and our radius of perception is basically the speed of light times 13 or 14 billion years in all directions. We are the center of an ever expanding bubble of things visible in the range of 14 billion light years. You do the math on that, I have no particular need to know the volume of that sphere. Since there is a universe in the way, we cannot see "beyond" the surface of that ever-expanding sphere - not that I'm sure there IS anything beyond that surface. But we ARE the center of the universe. By simple geometry, though. Not by divine action.

 

[vba_php]

If there was nothing before the bang, does that mean there was a God, and that the universe is expanding into God's territory?

God created everything Jon, and therefore you will never get an answer to this question. Sorry, my friend. like i said in our PMs, this question you're asking is in the realm of what human beings cannot possible understand because the mystery of it is uncomprehendable. just like the stigmata given to so many saints that have bore the suffering of others to show the compassion of Christ for little and poor people.

 

[Jon]

Then if God created everything, is the universe not expanding into something? And so since God created everything, he also created that "something". So what I said was accurate. Or did I err in some way?

 

[vba_php]

like I already said Jon, you'll never know! more than likely, the knowledge is in a realm outside of what the human brain can understand. sort of like the concept of multi-dimensional time and space. if you want to bend you brain as much as possible with regards to outer space, look this stuff up:

=> spaghettification
=> spacetime
=> the 1997 movie "Contact" starring Jodie Foster. specifically, this part:

@30 seconds:

 

[The_Doc_Man]

you'll never know! more than likely, the knowledge is in a realm outside of what the human brain can understand

God is the ultimate excuse to stop thinking. When you reach an infinity wall, ... Goddidit. When you want to know what was before... Goddidit. When you want to know what comes next, you get "We are not meant to know God's ways." So like a good little automaton, you stop looking and stop thinking. That is a fatalistic barrier - and a pile of desiccated dyspeptic dragon droppings. It's an excuse to say "My head hurts too much so I want to stop thinking now." It's an excuse to say, "I don't really want to examine my beliefs more closely because I'm afraid they will crumble and they are all that is keeping me from crying alone in the night."

Which is why the religious types go crazy when you ask "Who created God?"

You see, this "God" being is the so-called "first cause" because until the mid-1900s and the advent of quantum uncertainty, the universe was thought to be all "strict cause and effect." Logically, if that is true, then everything reaches backwards through a chain of causality to infinity. But those infinities make people's heads hurt, so they built a road block to stop the infinities. This road block became the First Cause and they called it God. The "uncaused cause." The Great Mover. The Creator.

Then along came folks like Max Born, Paul Dirac, Erwin Schrödinger, Werner Heisenberg, and quite a few more Quantum Mechanics pioneers. Robert Oppenheimer and Albert Einstein were at odds about this, which was part the famous (if somewhat apocryphal) quote attributed to Einstein that "God doesn't play at dice." Obviously, Einstein was a "strict causality" person whereas Oppenheimer was a proponent of Statistical Quantum studies. The part that bothers so many religious types now is that you no longer need a First Cause if you can have a First Accidental Cosmic Flux event instead. And it is ALL about probability and randomness. Even "Intelligent Design" becomes so complex as to strain credulity because of the thousands upon millions upon BILLIONS of combinations that simple atoms can spontaneously make when in a warm ocean. Alan Turing once wrote a paper on why things naturally progress from simplicity to complexity. Turns out evolution is mathematically well-based in terms of Entropy vs. Enthalpy.

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

There isn't a God and I can prove it. But before I can prove there isn't a God you have to explain what God means to you. What are the features/abilities of your God...

 

[Jon]

I would Like your post Doc, but I don't just in case I get struck down by lightning as a consequence.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Ah, hedging your bets I see. Thanks, Jon, I understand. So far, lightning hasn't come my way just yet.

 

[AccessBlaster]

If you had a strong enough telescope and gazed into the distant cosmos, you would probably see the back of your head.

 

[Jon]

Doc, God's static has given you a pass.

 

[Jon]

@AccessBlaster You've got your telescope back to front!

 

[vba_php]

I would Like your post Doc, but I don't just in case I get struck down by lightning as a consequence.

Jon are you aware that 3 people working on the set of mel Gibson's movie "the passion of the christ" got struck by lightning while on set? Including the actor playing jesus! Richard....ur quotes regarding god and "he did it" or "we don't know his ways" are just more obvious indications that uve talked to the wrong Christian's in ur lifetime. All of the statements u quoted r political strategies used by church goers and clergy to hide the fact that the world is indeed an extremely unfair place and sucks terribly. U need to talk to the loving people my man!

 

[Galaxiom]

We only know what we can see and our radius of perception is basically the speed of light times 13 or 14 billion years in all directions. We are the center of an ever expanding bubble of things visible in the range of 14 billion light years.

No actually. The diameter of the visible Universe is about 93 billion Light Years. This seemingly incongruous dimension, given the Universe is only 13.8 billion years old and nothing can move at the speed of light, is because the Space between us and objects at that distance has expanded since the light set out on its journey.

Note that nothing moved faster than light to reach that distance. Space itself got bigger.

 

[Galaxiom]

SpaceTime is expanding into the Void. The Void is like Null in a database.

 

[vba_php]

No actually. The diameter of the visible Universe is about 93 billion Light Years. This seemingly incongruous dimension, given the Universe is only 13.8 billion years old

that's correct galax but what ur missing is the fact there is more than one theory bout the actual diameter. Some experts say approx 90 bly, some say more than 150 bly and then some say even more than that. There's a wiki page on the topic but the section is part of a bigger webpage article. This goes right along with the theories bout the fate of the universe....big freeze, big RIP, heat death, freezer death, or a never-ending process whereby our universe collapses into a singularity and the next big bang results, thus creating an eternity of universe births and deaths. As far as a void being the same as a null in a db, I'm not sure bout THAT! Null in a db is pretty darn small in terms of memory where a void in space would consist of 10^10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 bytes of space, if not very much larger@ LOL.

 

[Galaxiom]

As far as a void being the same as a null in a db, I'm not sure bout THAT! Null in a db is pretty darn small in terms of memory where a void in space would consist of 10^10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 bytes of space, if not very much larger@ LOL.

You have missed the point. Space does not exist except in Universes. You are imagining what could be described as NullSpace, roughly the equivalent of NullString. The Universe expands into Nothing.