Who's the fascist? (1 Viewer)

[oumahexi]

Our union just sent this to all of it's member:

All the candidates for the General Election have declared and, out of the blue, the Nazi BNP (British National party) have managed to organise a candidate for the Livingston constituency. Firstly, it is great that the BNP are not standing in Edinburgh when they said they would stand against Alistair Darling. This is a retreat by them and this may be related to the strength of opinion shown by the large anti-SDL demonstration on 20 Feb.
However, as far as we are aware there is no organised opposition to the BNP in Livingston and we need to make an impact there fast. This is why I am emailing you.
At the bottom of this email is a list of activities for the next fortnight, please have a look and help out. Alternatively could you leaflet your street or friends at work? Email uafedinburgh@riseup.net for more information or for leaflets.
Forward this email to anyone else you know in the Livingstone area, and encourage families and friends to vote in the General Election. The more that vote for any other party, the smaller the percentage vote for the BNP.

I have replied to them as follows:

While I do not agree with many of their policies and have no intention of voting for them I am appalled by your email. Whatever happened to "freedom of speech" and "democracy"? I am sorry, I cannot condone an out and out witch hunt and am shocked to find that my union incites such action! Clearly the unions would prefer to have a Labour Government, but it is not up to them to decide nor to campaign. We all very much doubt that this party will be elected, but if they were surely that would be a clear indication of the will of the people.
Are you aware that the trait you attack "fascism" can clearly be attached to the content of your email?

 

[chergh]

Our union just sent this to all of it's member:

All the candidates for the General Election have declared and, out of the blue, the Nazi BNP (British National party) have managed to organise a candidate for the Livingston constituency. Firstly, it is great that the BNP are not standing in Edinburgh when they said they would stand against Alistair Darling. This is a retreat by them and this may be related to the strength of opinion shown by the large anti-SDL demonstration on 20 Feb.
However, as far as we are aware there is no organised opposition to the BNP in Livingston and we need to make an impact there fast. This is why I am emailing you.
At the bottom of this email is a list of activities for the next fortnight, please have a look and help out. Alternatively could you leaflet your street or friends at work? Email uafedinburgh@riseup.net for more information or for leaflets.
Forward this email to anyone else you know in the Livingstone area, and encourage families and friends to vote in the General Election. The more that vote for any other party, the smaller the percentage vote for the BNP.

I have replied to them as follows:

While I do not agree with many of their policies and have no intention of voting for them I am appalled by your email. Whatever happened to "freedom of speech" and "democracy"? I am sorry, I cannot condone an out and out witch hunt and am shocked to find that my union incites such action! Clearly the unions would prefer to have a Labour Government, but it is not up to them to decide nor to campaign. We all very much doubt that this party will be elected, but if they were surely that would be a clear indication of the will of the people.
Are you aware that the trait you attack "fascism" can clearly be attached to the content of your email?

Sorry but I don't agree. The union is urging people to oppose the BNP by getting out and vote. They are not trying to gag the BNP, they are not trying to stop them from standing for goverment. The BNP's best hope of getting elected is voter apathy where a large number of voters don't excercise their vote. The unions efforts to get people out to vote is to be commended in my opinion. There is nothing fascist about it in my opinion. If they were attempting to stop the BNP standing for election, disrupting their rally's so they couldnt speak, intimidating their candidates and supporters then it would be fascism but encouraging people to keep the BNP out by voting for other candidates doesn't qualify IMO.

 

[oumahexi]

Sorry but I don't agree. The union is urging people to oppose the BNP by getting out and vote. They are not trying to gag the BNP, they are not trying to stop them from standing for goverment. The BNP's best hope of getting elected is voter apathy where a large number of voters don't excercise their vote. The unions efforts to get people out to vote is to be commended in my opinion. There is nothing fascist about it in my opinion. If they were attempting to stop the BNP standing for election, disrupting their rally's so they couldnt speak, intimidating their candidates and supporters then it would be fascism but encouraging people to keep the BNP out by voting for other candidates doesn't qualify IMO.

Strangely enough, after my reply, they have been advised by their lawyers to retract their email.

They did attach the following to the original email:

"A Dedicated Follower Of Fascism"
For a Unite Against Fascism briefing on BNP Fuhrer Nick Griffin go to:
http://www.uaf.org.uk/resources/0910griffinbriefing.pdf

By their own admission, the document is edited so that only information for antifascists is given.

I do find their email intimidating. In my opinion they are attempting to sway their members' votes by scaremongering. Much the same as the Nazi Party did in the 1930s. Unison is a union, they are not a political movement, they are appointed to represent their members regardless of who is in power and it should make no difference whatsoever to them who I vote for.

 

[JamesMcS]

You could also say that they're trying to be fair by pointing out the lack of competition in that area....

 

[Rich]

But will it keep Salmond's smug face off the box?

 

[dan-cat]

They are not trying to gag the BNP, they are not trying to stop them from standing for goverment.

This part suggests otherwise:

Firstly, it is great that the BNP are not standing in Edinburgh when they said they would stand against Alistair Darling. This is a retreat by them and this may be related to the strength of opinion shown by the large anti-SDL demonstration on 20 Feb.

It's fairly clear that the union's intent is for the BNP to not run at all.

 

[chergh]

This part suggests otherwise:



It's fairly clear that the union's intent is for the BNP to not run at all.

No, it's clear the unions preference is for the BNP not to run but they are not taking any action to try and stop them from running.

 

[dan-cat]

No, it's clear the unions preference is for the BNP not to run but they are not taking any action to try and stop them from running.

I think that "preference" was clearly expressed in the email and that was what Ouma was objecting too.

 

[JamesMcS]

So a bit naughty of the union to be politically involved? Are they not big lobbyists generally speaking?

 

[chergh]

So a bit naughty of the union to be politically involved? Are they not big lobbyists generally speaking?

Nothing naughty about it.

Unions are big political animals. A unions primary purpose is advance an agenda beneficial to their members and this necessitates political involvment, and hence why unions fund the labour party. The minimum wage is a prime example of a piece of legislation promoted by union lobbying.

 

[chergh]

I think that "preference" was clearly expressed in the email and that was what Ouma was objecting too.

Yes the preference clearly was stated but you fallaciously refered to it as an "intent".

Ouma may object to this, as is her right, but I fully support what the union is trying to achieve. I lived for a couple of years in the town that the email referred to, back in the days when Robin Cook was the MP, and I would have certainly have encouraged people to vote to ensure the BNP were not elected. In my opinion the BNP are a bunch of racists that it is in everyones interests to keep out of power.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Not that I have a direct interest in this thread or the election in question, but I find it interesting that you folks on the far side of the pond have similar problems as we do on the USA side of the pond when it comes to unions organizing the vote for or against something. Maybe the candidates and issues are different, but the underlying currents with voter apathy and voter notification are not.

Ah, politics! Ain't it wonderful?

 

[Rich]

Nothing naughty about it.

Unions are big political animals. A unions primary purpose is advance an agenda beneficial to their members and this necessitates political involvment, and hence why unions fund the labour party. The minimum wage is a prime example of a piece of legislation promoted by union lobbying.

The claim that the Labour party is a supporter of the working classes is a myth and always has been

 

[JamesMcS]

Hmmm. Unions should really be only looking out for their members' best interests within the current political framework, not trying to change it.

Personally I find it disgusting that companies can pay for an MP to influence the way a country is run. It can only ever be for their own benefit, and not that of the millions of people who have to suffer under the changes they want to make.

 

[chergh]

The claim that the Labour party is a supporter of the working classes is a myth and always has been

It may be a myth but my point is that unions get more of what they want from labour than from the tories.

After thinking about it the minimum wage is probably the only useful thing labour ever did.

 

[chergh]

Unions should really be only looking out for their members' best interests within the current political framework, not trying to change it.

Nonsense, unions have every right to promote legilsation as long as it is for the benefit of their members. So for example minimum wage and health and safety legislation, working time are all areas where I believe unions should be politically involved. When it comes to items such as foreign policy or defense then they should keep their nose out.

 

[JamesMcS]

So if I don't like something I should pay thousands/millions to get it changed huh? Oh hang on I'm skint....

In terms of health and safety and whatnot, if something's illegal and/or obviously dangerous then fine and dandy it should be changed - but it should be a referendum and not a bloody strike that initiates that change. What drives me mental is that what is essentially a private organisation (union, bank, energy company) can pay money to get the way our country is run changed for their own good, and sod everyone else.

 

[JamesMcS]

Like these politicians for hire - the one who was going on about being 'a taxi for hire' in lobbying terms should be in prison right now.

 

[statsman]

Surely the unions have as much right as any other "special interest" group to make noise, threaten moderate politicians, endorse politicians sympathetic to them and do everything possible to get legislation passed that is good for themselves.

Notice I said good for themselves. If it comes to a choice between whats good for the union and whats good for the membership, the union will go with its own best interest every time...just like all the other "special interest" groups.

 

[JamesMcS]

Aye, the gits.