What do Americans make of this? (1 Viewer)

[Brianwarnock]

Blade , why do you think atheists love their country any less than the religious?

Brian

 

[Brianwarnock]

I suspect that the 'Under God' part is a big sticking point for the Atheist! What to you think?

Blade.

It so obviously must be, and considering it was a religious organisation that finally got those words included in 1954 , I have to ask why? Why be divisive?
Why go against what your founding fathers intended?

I do like the way Americans fly their flag, I wish we flew ours.

Brian

 

[Frothingslosh]

Blade , why do you think atheists love their country any less than the religious?

Brian

That's an easy one - to the extreme Right, different = EVIL.

I mean hell, you've seen him post repeatedly about all liberals being part of a conspiracy to destroy American - I didn't make that up just to slam him.

 

[ConnorGiles]

English/American Language.

Very much a pet hate of mine. :banghead:

It's the English language.

America doesn't have an official language as of yet.

 

[Brianwarnock]

Very much a pet hate of mine. :banghead:

It's the English language.

America doesn't have an official language as of yet.

Why do you object to American-English ? It is in its written form frequently more logical than our form. It went through a revision in the late 19th early 20th centuries to rationalise its spelling, color, theater, boro are much more logical, and even if they weren't why shouldn't America or any other country have its own version of the original mother tongue? Language is a living entity and will evolve, I wouldn't be surprised if a future UK generation used American spelling fore some words.

Brian

 

[ConnorGiles]

Due to its "Pet hate" nature. I don't object to it at all.

I would highly doubt our language would evolve into something the Americans evolved from ours. Why would we stray away from a language that is our own, Into one that someone else modified? Unless they chose to invade us of course.

Another thing that is a pet hate of mine is when computer programs only come with the English (U.S.) installed.

 

[Libre]

Blade , why do you think atheists love their country any less than the religious?

Brian

Let me take a stab at this one.
Atheists, by definition, abhor the practice of worshipping deities.
Ergo it's a small extension to say that they would also abhor putting their hands over their hearts and chanting to a flag - because that's pretty close to a religious ritual. It's also clear why the "devout" would relish such idolatry - because they love chanting and praying to unseen forces.
Now, bear with me.
Bladerunner has made the erroneous and unsupportable argument that disliking the Pledge is equivalent to not caring about the country, with words (paraphrasing): "if you don't like the pledge and think it's bad for America, pack your bags and leave the rest of us who care about our country".
So since Bladerunner is operating under false premises, it follows that his conclusion would also be faulty - which is, if you don't like the pledge then you don't care about America.
And that's how you draw a line (not a straight line, but a curvy and twisted one) from an Atheist resisting things like pledges - and of course objecting to the phrase "under God", to an atheist caring less about his country than a religious person. It's all based on faulty logic and intolerance.

 

[Bladerunner]

Blade , why do you think atheists love their country any less than the religious?

Brian

Ah,,,, that depends on how you define the word 'LOVE' YES!!!!!!!!!!
Would they give their life for it, Unless it was on their back door NO!!!!!!!! and they would probably, from what I understand from those on these threads, let it come to their back door before they decided to do something. They don't want to get their hands dirty and that is evident by the Feeeeeeeeeeeel Goooooood agenda they are promoting here in the USA. Does your country have the ability to stop WWIII. (ISIS). NO!!!!!!!! Does your EU have the ability to stop WWIII (ISIS)...NO!!!!!!!!!!.Well, that is what your going to have to do if we have another 4 years of the liberal democrats. Sorry, but I love my wife, my kids, my dog, my car, my country and do not want to live thru a WW, do you.??????but yet the philosophy 'live and let live' plays right into the scenario of another WW. My love is God, Country and Family and then everything else in that order. Their is what?????????Me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me

Blade

 

[Libre]

What do you tell a man who puts his God ahead of his country, and his country ahead of his family, and then says (or shouts) that it's others that have their priorities upside down?
I don't know the answer to that.
It's true that we atheist liberals would put our family ahead of mythical, abstract constructs (God), and probably ahead of country as well. I'd never sacrifice my family for those things. Even country is an abstraction. My family are livivg, breathing human beings. I'd always put them first.

 

[Rx_]

Just want to make a historical point. There is a tradition, not one I agree with, but a tradition none the less backed by endless court rulings.
First of all, consider the relatively new concept of Public Schools in the US. It might equate to the term Government School in the UK.
http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/school-choice-then-now
One of my undergraduate degrees was Technical Education. Study of the history and court cases was required. Previous to that, I went to a newly integrated "seperate but equal" junior college because it was all I could afford.
Here is a quote from the CATO Institute (among thousands of historical documents) that might surprise some: - begin quote
"Among the biggest boosters of the Act forcing all children into public schools? None other than the Ku Klux Klan.
The King Kleagle of the KKK hailed the ballot initiative when it passed in 1922: “[The Ku Klux Klan] with its white-robed sentinels keeping eternal watch, shall for all time, with its blazing torches as signal fires, stand guard on the outer walls of the Temple of Liberty, cry out the warning when danger appears and take its place in the front rank of defenders of the public schools.”
Another Klansman leader stated: “I believe that our Free Public School is the cornerstone of good government and that those who are seeking to destroy it are enemies of our Republic and are unworthy of citizenship.”
- end quote
In a nutshell, the US use to have Private Schools of every type. It provided no end of variations to fuel the best social experiments as to what teaching methods are effective.
Social law required parents to provide for the education of children and it was considered child abuse not to do so.
Educated typically indicated an ability to read and write in a minimum of three languages. The Bible or other books was often used for its Latin and Greek. However many students read the Greek version Homer.
Literacy was estimated to be around 85% of the population before Government Schools.
Then things changed. "American Culture" was too diverse.
The KKK started their most successful petition to "unify American Culture".
It outright banned private schools to be placed with mandatory government run schools. The State of Oregon was the hub of the KKK activity for the US.
The Society of Sisters a Catholic School and a private Military school took the KKK National Petition to the Supreme Court. They dare not fight it on individual rights. The challenge was on "Property Rights". If the government could ban an activity, it made the property worthless. Well, any property owner was against that.
So, the Great Public School Compromise was reached. Everyone was forced to pay for a government school, but could choose out of pocket to attend a private school.

Schools and Societies By Steven G. Brint Page 123 (study on US School System)
“… 30 percent of High School seniors could not locate Great Britain on a map (Sowell 1992)
The joke is that in 1992 it was a world map. In 2014, it was a map... of just Great Britain.

 

[Brianwarnock]

Well RX_ I can't quite work out where that fits into this thread.
Perhaps you could clarify the point you are making.

Brian

 

[Brianwarnock]

Blade if I read your posts correctly you say that Democrats won't fight unless it is in their backyard.

Who took you into WW1 - Democrat
Who took you into WW2 - Democrat
Who decided to use the Atomic bomb - Democrat
Who took you into the Korean War - Democrat
Who took you into Vietnam - Democrat
Who forced the Cuban missile crises - Democrat Ah! That is your own back yard.

Brian

 

[Libre]

Blade if I read your posts correctly you say that Democrats won't fight unless it is in their backyard.

Who took you into WW1 - Democrat
Who took you into WW2 - Democrat
Who decided to use the Atomic bomb - Democrat
Who took you into the Korean War - Democrat
Who took you into Vietnam - Democrat
Who forced the Cuban missile crises - Democrat Ah! That is your own back yard.

Brian

Brian, in all fairness to Bladerunner, recent history has shown that it's the Republicans that have dragged us into useless, tragic and unwinnable wars, far from our backyard! So Bladerunner is probably right in that regard. Look to the Conservatives (and religious zealots) if you want to find leaders who are willing to sacrifice the blood of other people's children to fight and die in senseless wars, far from their homes.
Please Brian, fair is fair.

 

[Frothingslosh]

Take anything you read from the CATO institute with a grain of salt. That particular think-tank was founded by Charles Koch to be the mouthpiece of 'corporate' libertairianism. Basically they push a John Birch ideology of no regulations and no taxes for businesses, no taxes for the wealthy, and zero restrictions whatsoever on predatory capitalism. Your summary really twists and alters a much more involved and complicated issue that came into being long before 1922.

 

[KenHigg]

Goodness, not much change around here...

 

[Brianwarnock]

Goodness, not much change around here...

Hi Ken, what or who raised you from the dead, good grief Rich will be back next and you can start arguing again, with Col as well of course.

Brian

 

[Brianwarnock]

Brian, in all fairness to Bladerunner, recent history has shown that it's the Republicans that have dragged us into useless, tragic and unwinnable wars, far from our backyard! So Bladerunner is probably right in that regard. Look to the Conservatives (and religious zealots) if you want to find leaders who are willing to sacrifice the blood of other people's children to fight and die in senseless wars, far from their homes.
Please Brian, fair is fair.

LOL, but you are so correct.

Brian

 

[KenHigg]

Hi Ken, what or who raised you from the dead, good grief Rich will be back next and you can start arguing again, with Col as well of course.

Brian

Hi ya Brian, Hope you're well - I got some kind of MS Access junk email an it made me think of the forum. Has Bob left for good?

 

[Brianwarnock]

Yes Ken he has, and a lot of others who were around in the good old days no longer post, I suppose people move on as their careers change. Being long retired I no longer post in the Access techy area.
I miss the banter of the old days even if it did go over the top now and again.
Better not derail this thread with reminisces.

Brian

 

[KenHigg]

Who's running the show? Who yanks us in line when we stray aroung here - ?