Katrina ten years on.

ColinEssex

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Well, it's now 10 years since the Katrina Storm thingy.

It's all over the UK news as to how things are going after such devastation. It seems basically that anything to do with white people has been fixed and is carrying on as normal - carnivals and the like, whilst black people still live in poverty, very few homes of blacks have been fixed. Black ghettos are crime ridden with murders, rapes and robberies a common daily occurrence.

All main UK TV channels have interviewed black residents who all say the same, that they are lesser citizens and are virtually forgotten (on purpose), live in poverty and shanty towns whilst the whites prosper. Some even say Obama doesn't care and is as bad as GWB at ignoring black citizens.

Sounds to me like the story of everywhere in the USA.

Col
 
Well, it's now 10 years since the Katrina Storm thingy.

It's all over the UK news as to how things are going after such devastation.

Col, while I do not claim exclusivity on this issue, I have the inside track on a lot of what has happened in New Orleans and the surrounding area since Katrina wandered through the area. I have lived through the recovery and have taken a small part therein. I've watched it through the eyes of the local news crews and with my own eyes.

It seems basically that anything to do with white people has been fixed and is carrying on as normal - carnivals and the like, whilst black people still live in poverty, very few homes of blacks have been fixed.

Not entirely true. The "very few homes... have been fixed" statement is categorically not true. What IS true is perhaps a bit more subtle. If the people whose homes were destroyed were living in extreme poverty before the storm, they have a monumental rebuilding task before them and their poverty makes them a bad loan risk. Does this same class discrimination not happen in the U.K.? If you are a bad loan risk, do you get a loan?

In New Orleans, the Lower 9th Ward (to the southeast and east of the main part of town) was an extreme-poverty area. A lot of the people moved to other cities and have established lives elsewhere. Some were just poor. Others were looking for a "Free Welfare Ride" (I think you folks call this "on the dole") forever and couldn't get it in New Orleans. But for those who stayed, the dole or welfare was never designed to support a person in rebuilding their homes on-site. See also previous comments about poverty and loans.

Not only are the rebuilding efforts harder to manage when on welfare, but there is the matter that if you rebuild a home that had been leveled by the storm, you have to rebuild it to modern building codes, which is far more expensive and extensive than simply repairing superficial damage. For people who are in poverty and who probably are poor because of a limited education, this kind of rebuilding effort can be daunting, verging on impossible. The updated flood maps make rebuilding some of those homes nearly impossible because of the requirement to elevate the homes based on the Katrina flood levels. In some cases, the building code says you have to construct your home 20 feet higher than ground level to meet the post-flood code standards, when it was legal to be only 3 feet off the ground. You can't get a loan if you don't meet code because you can't get the insurance required by the loan institutions, and for a 20-foot elevation, it only gets that much worse.

Black ghettos are crime ridden with murders, rapes and robberies a common daily occurrence.

Yes, and how does this differ from the situations in the ghettos of other major cities in the world, cities that have ghettos with street gangs, la familia, or whatever passes for groups of disaffected, drug-using, thuggish, violent youths?

I would say that most of the problem with the rampant crime is in the New Orleans East area (yes, the precincts and wards to the east side of the city) where due to limited police presence throughout the city, there never seem to be enough officers to cover everything. That can be said of MANY parts of our city - and, I'll bet, many other cities as well. It comes down to that area being a place where drug traffickers can hide because our law-enforcement staff has to spend more time elsewhere.

We have to balance the city's budget with schools, police, fire, roads, water, sewage, etc., and the infrastructure underground here is crumbling. (Having weeks of standing water soaking your soil will do that to you...) We have to nearly totally rebuild our water supply system and sewage system because soil swelling followed by subsidence caused many of the older pipes to crack. It was estimated that two years after Katrina, we were losing 50% or more of our water to cracked pipes before it ever got to our citizens.

Now, let's ask this question and PLEASE Col, be honest with the answer. When you start rebuilding things, do you rebuild where the greatest number of people still reside or do you start rebuilding to feed areas where nobody lives? Of COURSE the Lower 9th Ward is slow to get full restoration of services. But they aren't the only poor, black neighborhoods. Many others have rebuilt with black - but less poor - residents and they are doing OK.

Now multiply that question by each department in the city that has to rebuild - police, fire, education, health support, roads, drainage, ... you get the idea, I hope.

All main UK TV channels have interviewed black residents who all say the same, that they are lesser citizens and are virtually forgotten (on purpose), live in poverty and shanty towns whilst the whites prosper. Some even say Obama doesn't care and is as bad as GWB at ignoring black citizens.

The people complaining on TV probably don't understand the problems of making ends meet with insufficient funds to go around at the city level; they just know they can't build their homes like they once were, deep in the bottom of the Lower 9th Ward bowl. You should also realize that the TV news crews look for the sensational stories, not the {ho-hum} success stories.

However, if you wished to take this as an opportunity to criticize President Obama, I hope I can get out of your way fast enough to give you free rein on that particular activity. (Sorry, had to slip that one in.)

Sounds to me like the story of everywhere in the USA.

I believe this is merely your prejudice and your ignorance of the USA reality showing a bit, plus perhaps a bit of selective blindness to the areas closer to you in the UK. But I can forgive that kind of myopia - the kind that says, "This can't be happening in MY neighborhood." It is a common human failing. See, for example, the documented cases of German citizens in villages just a few miles from the death camps, folks who were unaware of the atrocities being committed in their name.
 
Do you not have home insurance in the USA? In the UK, we had a nasty "hurricane" in 1987 where I lived in the south. (Nothing compared to your one) but it caused huge damage we lost our garage and many houses lost roofs etc. fortunately most had insurance plus, those that didn't got central government help. It seems your central government doesn't help by what you are saying.

Also, I interpret your comments as being, if people were poor and unemployed and black before Katrina then that's the way they should stay, but now without a house.

Yes, I may have myopia, but I can only interpret what I see on TV. It is not a pretty picture for the USA, like the 30,000 killed by gunshot (accidental and deliberate) this year so far. As all TV stations are saying the same, I can only assume it must be true that poor people and blacks are virtually forgotten, and you more or less confirm that.

I knew you would post comments as you did, but I feel sad that the central government wastes billions on non important stuff whilst neglecting its citizens struggling through no fault of their own. Still, who cares, they are poor and black and lesser people.

Col
 
Also, I interpret your comments as being, if people were poor and unemployed and black before Katrina then that's the way they should stay, but now without a house.

No, you have it backwards. I always want people to do better. It is in the best interests of everyone in this country that we educate the poor and eradicate them by improving their lots in life. However, the sad fact of life is that money rules most countries. Yes, we have home insurance with a huge deductible threshold. Flood insurance is a separate policy with higher risk and thus higher cost.

Again, blacks and poor people are NOT forgotten. We don't have the money in places where it needs to be. If we have any major ill in this country, it is that unrestrained capitalism and Ronnie Reagan's "trickle-down" theory aren't ideal for a stratified-income situation. But if you take a look at current events, Greece is only just a little bit farther down the socialized services road than the USA.

The problem of how we finance the welfare state should not obscure a separate issue: if each person thinks he has an inalienable right to welfare, no matter what happens to the world, that's not equity, it's just creating a society where you can't ask anything of people.

Jacques Delors

Man becomes great exactly in the degree in which he works for the welfare of his fellow-men.

Mahatma Ghandi

Col, one big problem has become one in which people are in welfare for themselves without regard to others who might need it just as badly. The country has become polarized such that welfare reform would never get passed as a popular voting topic, only as a necessary voting topic - as it has already become in Greece. I'm NOT pointing a finger with the intent of claiming higher ground. The USA's monetary system is heading the same way as Greece, we just haven't reached that point.

When I was researching these quotes, I found more than a few that held up some UK tax and welfare practices in an unfavorable light as well. I really don't want to get into a p|ss|ng match with you. I simply remember that old Biblical admonition to remove the mote from one's own eye before worrying about the beam in the eyes of another person. The UK and the USA each have their own flavors of welfare. From what I can tell, nobody on either side of the big puddle really likes what they have.

As to the 30K+ deaths by gunshot (which YOU brought up), about 60% are suicides, which tends to blunt your statistics a bit. Yes, still not good, but if someone wants to die, they will find a way. That leaves 12K/year by gunshot from another person. In the major cities (where most of the 12K GSW deaths/year occur), numbers tell us that it is anywhere between 35% and 55% gang-related, and a lot of the deaths are caused by illegal Mexican immigrants from the drug cartels in this country as enforcers, or by local gang members associated with a drug ring. It's not an excuse for deaths - but since you brought it up, some of the monetary drain on poor people is their susceptibility to the influence of - and powerlessness against - drug trafficking. It is a vicious circle and the only solution is to get someone to survive long enough to take the gangs to court so they can get locked away. Of course, then the bleeding-heart types make a big noise about how many people are incarcerated in the USA.

In the end analysis, if they do the crime, they should do the crime. Toss the gang-bangers in jail. That will reduce the pressure on the poor but honest people - and trust me, we have such people. They just don't seem to be as newsworthy as the gang-bangers.
 
As I was reading this thread whilst having breakfast the news was on the TV ,( who says blokes can't multitask :D ) there was a news item about Obama visiting New Orleans , it painted a different picture to that by Col.
Of course we can't possibly know the truth from thousands of miles away.

Brian
 
Oh, I don't think we need to start a second gun thread, the existing one has already shown that the Americans don't trust their government to not enslave them, and that many , if not most, don't understand the second amendment.

Brian
 
We still have plenty of sites that haven't been repaired / redeveloped since the Luftwaffe destroyed them.

Meanwhile government gives a London Based Premier league team a stadium, paid for by everyone else.
 
As to the 30K+ deaths by gunshot (which YOU brought up), about 60% are suicides, which tends to blunt your statistics a bit. Yes, still not good, but if someone wants to die, they will find a way.

You seem rather blase about this - depression can be a passing illness.

By These figures the US suicide rate is twice that of the UK, and half of them are gun deaths.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/suicide.htm

In this country we limit the amount of aspirin/paracetomal that can be bought at any one time - to prevent such suicides? Does the US do this - but the far more effective method of by the gun not so much?

Seems America is blase about others generally - as long as the individual is good - feels free and safe with their guns - suicides and murders to others a price worth paying.
 
We still have plenty of sites that haven't been repaired / redeveloped since the Luftwaffe destroyed them.

Meanwhile government gives a London Based Premier league team a stadium, paid for by everyone else.

You can leave my beloved West Ham out of this. They may be Shite, but I like em that way... :p
 
Oh well Doc, I was just reporting what I saw on the BBC and other channels news, and it wasn't a particularly good advert for New Orleans.
I got the impression that it would be better on a self catering holiday in Beirut.

Anyway, nuff said, good luck with the rebuild.

Col
 
Colin, you can find terrible stories about any city if you look hard enough. Hell, the city I live in had a freaking completely-misleading documentary filmed about it (called Roger and Me).

The truth is that like more or less every other nation, the US has its good and its bad. As Doc pointed out, however, reporters focus on what brings in the headlines, and "NEW ORLEANS BLACKS IGNORED, STILL LIVING IN RUINS" gets much, much more attention than "NEW ORLEANS REBUILDING SLOWER THAN EXPECTED DUE TO LACK OF FUNDS AND EXCESSIVE INFRASTRUCTURE DAMAGE".

Hell, it's there even with the current spate of Criminal Cop reports going around - those proven stories of cops violating rights and even committing murder and not even being investigated ("Oh, I thought he had a gun, so I killed him; so what if all seventeen bullet wounds were in the back?") piss me off like little else, but even I'm aware that for every bad cop you see in the news, there are fifty out there just trying to do their job as best as they can.

The news is always slanted toward the sensationalist headline.
 
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Colin, you can find terrible stories about any city if you look hard enough. Hell, the city I live in had a freaking completely-misleading documentary filmed about it (called Roger and Me).

The truth is that like more or less every other nation, the US has its good and its bad. As Doc pointed out, however, reporters focus on what brings in the headlines, and "NEW ORLEANS BLACKS IGNORED, STILL LIVING IN RUINS" gets much, much more attention than "NEW ORLEANS REBUILDING SLOWER THAN EXPECTED DUE TO LACK OF FUNDS AND EXCESSIVE INFRASTRUCTURE DAMAGE".

Hell, it's there even with the current spate of Criminal Cop reports going around - those proven stories of cops violating rights and even committing murder and not even being investigated ("Oh, I thought he had a gun, so I killed him; so what if all seventeen bullet wounds were in the back?") piss me off like little else, but even I'm aware that for every bad cop you see in the news, there are fifty out there just trying to do their job as best as they can.

The news is always slated toward the sensationalist headline.
Well said. Unfortunately the OP doesn't really care about all that, he just bides his time waiting for the next problem to occur. Then feints righteous indignation. Of course always posed as an innocent question or statement.
 
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Well said. Unfortunately the OP doesn't really care about all that, he just bides his time waiting for the next problem to occur. Then feints righteous indignation. Of course always posed as an innocent question or statement.

Oh, of course he doesn't, and of course he will. The only people I've ever seen with a more all-consuming hatred of America and everything about it than he has have all featured in al-Qaida videos.

You'd think all of America lined up and took turns shooting his dog or something.
 
I have suggested that instead of going to Spain each year Col goes to the US , hires a car or motorbike and meets some Americans , those you meet in America are very different to those you meet "doing Europe " or elsewhere come to that, it's like judging Brits by those you meet in the bars of the Med.

Brian
 
I have suggested that instead of going to Spain each year Col goes to the US , hires a car or motorbike and meets some Americans , those you meet in America are very different to those you meet "doing Europe " or elsewhere come to that, it's like judging Brits by those you meet in the bars of the Med.

Brian
those doing Europe would be some of the better off and reasonably successful presumably doing something reasonably cultural, and you equate those with our med sun and alcohol holiday makers? What are the others like?
 
Most of the Americans I have come across outside of America, whether in Europe or Asia have been loud and arrogant, my daughter who holidays in Central America says the same, those I have met in the US. have been polite welcoming and generous.

Brian
 
I wonder if anyone can explain why those who travel are more irritating than the average? Maybe it's not the folks, maybe Americans are great hosts and terrible guests? Never having been to the us I don't know.
 
Roughly 318.9 million Americans (2014) and 11,407,988 of them decided to travel to Europe in 2013. I agree those ugly Americans should stay home and spend their cash here.
 
Most of the Americans I have come across outside of America, whether in Europe or Asia have been loud and arrogant, my daughter who holidays in Central America says the same

I wonder if there have been many more Americans than you realize, as only the loud and arrogant ones would stand out. The quiet and respectful ones may never be noticed. I've traveled a fair amount, and I'm one of the latter. If we were in the same restaurant, you'd never know I was American unless you were close enough to hear my lack of accent. ;)
 

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