I never have understood this... (1 Viewer)

[dan-cat]

I'm not asking whether God's existence depends on a person's belief,

The question was ...

Does God exist if you believe he does?

ie. God's objective existence depends on one's belief of it.

I'm asking whether something unprovable can be true or false based on an individual's point of view, or is it always simply unprovable.

This question doesn't make any sense. How can something 'unprovable' be anything else but 'simply unprovable'. Your premise dictates one answer. That God's existance must remain unprovable. Something 'unprovable' can not be known to be objectively true or false. It's existance is a boolean value but the knowledge of that you have dictated in your question...'unprovable'. If something becomes provable then it transcends the viewpoint, just like 1+1=2 does.

 

[Rich]

just like 1+1=2 does.

But didn't we make 1+1 = 2 ?

 

[Rich]

Col/Rich/anyone else on the "other side of the pond", how is religion "organized" over there? How many different choices do you have?

Christ knows?

 

[Rich]

I do believe God gives gifts but I also believe Satan enables with gifts too.

Which camp does Santa Claus come from?

 

[Rich]

It's based on someone's righteousness and that righteousness doesn't come from us. It comes from Christ. The finished work at Calvary accomplished several things and one of those was, His righeousness imputed to believers. A person can be "good" but not necessarily righteous. If a person receives Christ righteousness then they should become "good." Shane

You see now I'm confused, one can be righteous and support the death penalty, whilst I, an ardent atheist, can't find it in my heart to support this barbaric and inhumane practice. If God really wanted a just society why didn't he put love for each other at the top of the list instead of subserviance to him, or her as the case may or may not be?

 

[dan-cat]

This is basically why I don't condone the death penalty...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060506/ap_on_re_us/clearing_inmate_s_name

Basically, human beings are inadequately equipped to have legitimate authority over life and death of its own kind.

 

[ShaneMan]

Which camp does Santa Claus come from?

Rearrange the letters in Santa and see what name you can come up with.

 

[dan-cat]

But didn't we make 1+1 = 2 ?

I don't believe so, I believe we discovered that rule and that it exists independant of human thought.

 

[ShaneMan]

You see now I'm confused, one can be righteous and support the death penalty, whilst I, an ardent atheist, can't find it in my heart to support this barbaric and inhumane practice. If God really wanted a just society why didn't he put love for each other at the top of the list instead of subserviance to him, or her as the case may or may not be?

He did. Look at the first book of the Bible and see what happened. Man was created perfect, but he also was given a freedom to choose. God allows those choices to be made whether good or bad. What goes with those choices is consequences. What is the judgement for someone taking someone elses life?

 

[Rich]

What is the judgement for someone taking someone elses life?

According to the Bible, that's Gods decision

 

[ShaneMan]

According to the Bible, that's Gods decision

True, but He also uses human agency. Plenty of accounts in the Bible to prove this.

 

[Rich]

True, but He also uses human agency. Plenty of accounts in the Bible to prove this.

That book's 2,000 years old, what evidence do we have that he supports it now?
Mind you, didn't he order the slaying of the Hitites 400years after they supposedly did something wrong?

 

[jsanders]

True, but He also uses human agency. Plenty of accounts in the Bible to prove this.

I would like to read a passge from Christ that advocates an eye for an eye.

 

[ShaneMan]

I would like to read a passge from Christ that advocates an eye for an eye.

Are you talking about Christ when He was here in the form of man? For me I can not separate that Christ is God Himself in the flesh so He was the same God that put the law into place. When Christ was here He said in the Sermon on the Mount, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." Matt. 5:17. Also, you can take a look at Romans 13, especially verse 4. Why can God not be a God of justice and a God of love? Can God be a God of love if He does not exact justice?

P.S. Gen 9:6 says, "Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man."

 

[ShaneMan]

That book's 2,000 years old, what evidence do we have that he supports it now?
Mind you, didn't he order the slaying of the Hitites 400years after they supposedly did something wrong?

Actually, the Bible is older than that. The New Testament is around 2000 years old. The evidence that He supports it now, and will continue to support it until the end times, is taken from what He has said about the Bible and passages found in several passages in the New Testament. As far as the Hitites go, you'll have to help me a little with that one because right now I'm not remembering the story.

 

[Rich]

Why can God not be a God of justice and a God of love? Can God be a God of love if He does not exact justice?

One doesn't execute those one supposedly loves, it's not possible

 

[ShaneMan]

One doesn't execute those one supposedly loves, it's not possible

Why is that not possible? What makes it not possible?

 

[dan-cat]

Man was created perfect, but he also was given a freedom to choose.

How can you be perfect and yet fallible?

 

[ShaneMan]

How can you be perfect and yet fallible?

Man was created perfect, (had committed no sin). Part of man's character that was given him was the freedom to make choices. I believe God wanted man to love Him by their own volition, thus he was not created as a puppet. With man having the freedom to choose that also meant he could choose sin. God gave the consequences for choosing sin. Man chose sin and fell. I do believe, trying to use your words, that man was created perfect and yet at the sametime given the freedom to make a choice or choices that would then make him imperfect. Hope I followed your question well enough to attempt an explanation.

 

[Rich]

Why is that not possible? What makes it not possible?

The act of love itself, could you execute one of your children?