I'm amazed! (1 Viewer)

conception_native_0123

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i don't think i've ever seen you write a long drawn out thing like Pat or steve R do, Richard.
 

Pat Hartman

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And we can always count on Pat to write a book, can't we?
Just to be clear that my opinions are my own and apparently similar to Churchill's, developed from real life experience and not the opinion of some talking head pushing an agenda. Don't get me started on their treatment of women. People object to this day of the compromise with the southern states to count slaves as 2/3 of a person. This was strictly to prevent the slave states from gaining undue power just because they had a lot of people who were not citizens. Not because the people framing the Constitution thought the slaves were less than human. Shariah Law counts women as 1/2 of men and it does that in 2021. Less than the population weight we gave to slaves in 1776. If a woman accuses a man of ra** but cannot produce FOUR male witnesses to the crime, she is punished for adultery.

Here's some examples that will help you to understand.

SHARIA LAW — LIST OF KEY RULES — What Is Sharia Law? (billionbibles.org)

I have to say that I agree with Churchill's opinion after living among them for a year and reading Shariah law as part of the application was designing for the civil service of Kuwait. There are individuals I love and still communicate with 40 years later but Islam is a danger to us all.

Americans listen to talking heads. Islam is a beautiful religion It is all about peace and love. Yep, there are surahs that are about peace and love. But they were from the time before Muhammad lost his mind and decided he needed to take vengeance on the other peoples of the book for not joining his parade.

Christianity has been plagued with violence and wrong doing, just read about the Medici's. And then there was the Spanish Inquisition unleashed by Isabella of Castile of Christopher Columbus fame. And on and on. We didn't start the war that led to the Crusades but we sure finished it. But at least Christians try to mend their ways. Islam is mired in the 7th century and they like it like that. Shariah Law cannot change. Only interpretations can change over time which is how we got from modest dress for women to the burka.
 
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The_Doc_Man

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i don't think i've ever seen you write a long drawn out thing like Pat or steve R do, Richard.

I've offered many short essays in the technical sections, Adam. Not to mention in the Watercooler thread about atheism.
 

Jon

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@Pat Hartman If you like that site, you might also like this one: https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

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It keeps a tally of the terrorist attacks, the death count, "Atrocity of the week" and so on. There are also many articles that cover the various aspects of Islam. The following one is Islam vs Christianity: https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/jesus-muhammad.aspx
 

AccessBlaster

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The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR)

CAIR is a sketchy organization that partners with a lot of school districts in California. The school districts accept their donations and turn a blind eye to the allegations regarding CAIR.
 

Isaac

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What that tells me is that both sides are being intentionally clueless and just want to be obstructive to true world peace.
But why should their top priority be world Peace?
 

Pat Hartman

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I've never seen that site before. I picked the link because of its accurate summary of the bad things about Shariah Law. MSNBC , CNN and all the rest lie a lot but not all the time. So, I presume the same for these people. Check other references for Shariah Law to see if you can dispute the summary.

If you haven't actually read Shariah Law or the hateful verses of the Koran, you can be critical of the site I linked to but not necessarily its content.

"Both Sides" ???? We're going to have to agree to disagree on that one. The Palestinians blame the Jews for ousting them from their homes in 1948 when the British pulled out and left control to the Zionists. And it goes downhill from there. The Jews have occupied that area of the world since biblical times. The controlling power has varied over time between the Jews and other ethnic groups including the Arabs now known as Palestinians. The Palestinians abandoned their homes and businesses in 1948 at the behest of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem who was a supporter of Hitler. He his people that the Jews were going to murder them in their beds and other awful things. So people who had lived side-by-side in peace with their Jewish neighbors living in the Kibbutz's believed the lie and ran. When the Mufti's ploy didn't change world opinion, the Arabs who fled were not allowed back. They became refugees. They ended up in all the surrounding countries but those countries never accepted them as citizens. So, for generations, we've had this festering boil in the Middle East. People without a country. Without prospects. Without a passport unless their host deigned to give them one. Of course they're mad. They're just mad at the wrong people. The Arabs who stayed are integrated into society and even elected to the parliament.

As long as the Palestinians insist that the Jews have no right to occupy Israel and need to be driven into the sea, there is simply no room for compromise. It's like Kyle Rittenhouse being blamed for defending himself against his attackers. The Arabs have instigated at least SIX wars that I can think of, possibly more. In all six wars, Israel won and in some, acquired more territory. That's the way wars work. You attack, you loose, too bad for you. Israel gave back a lot of the occupied territory in an effort to make peace. But they're not giving back the Golan heights or anything else that would endanger Israel. The PLO was having none of it. It has always been their way or the highway. Trump made huge progress when he got some of the Gulf states to sign peace treaties with Israel. The US negotiating position had always been, you have to get the PLO to come to the table first and everyone else will follow along. Trump realized that the PLO was never coming to the table and so did an end run around them and made peace agreements that didn't include the PLO.

Amin al-Husseini - Wikipedia
1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia
Causes of the 1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia

The HR/Payroll system I developed in Kuwait forced all Palestinians working for the Kuwait government to contribute 5% of their salary for workers and 10% for managers to the PLO. The HR system was implementing Shariah Law which is why I read so much of it.
 
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Isaac

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there IS NO religion of peace. even jesus said this:

I agree.

The over-arching, end-all, and be-all, is submission to the Creator.

Peace for us: He gives believers His spirit, and, when they do well in their efforts to walk in that spirit, the result should bring a certain amount of supernatural peace to their own self.
Peace with others: Ideally, believers who are in harmony (note - I didn't say compromise-at-all-costs, I said harmony, which is necessarily predicated on at least some amount of agreement and synchrony) also strive to be at peace with each other, and can often succeed if they are following the leading of the spirit within them
Peace with the world: Uhh...not necessarily, no. "Peace" between devoted believers and just any other entity, group, force, movement, belief system, government, or person on the globe is not a given by any means, nor a big thrust of what the point is. Doc and I disagree on a number of things, but I think it is fair to describe our interactions as "peaceful", by and large, and with a concerted effort on both of our part, so there are still ways of finding certain amounts of peace between disagreeing parties.

It all comes down to definitions, there are as many definitions for "Love", for example, as there are people on the globe.

On the one extreme, some think Loving people means truth is literally non-existent: "Your truth", "My truth,", and such concepts that defy even the most basic secular foundations of science and frankly, even philosophy.

On the other extreme, Christ's "followers" have too often emphasized people's sinfulness OVER the love we are to show them - a love which doesn't excuse or enable wrong, but also doesn't fail to thoroughly involve the mercy and grace we are to show people and which Christ showed us.

Then, in the last 20-30 years, the pendulum has swung a bit far in the other directions. Many modern churches have gone a bit too far, terrified at discussing 90% of Biblical teachings due to their craving for the approval of secular society, so they emphasize the 10% that is widely accepted.

I would like to say, that in our regular daily lives, Christians who are earnestly trying to do the deal, ought to be able to find more peace than they otherwise would, between them and the world at large.

However, even that is dependent on region, governments, and current times. It's easy to say "Christianity ought to bring peace", but tell that to the woman being tortured in a shipping container in Eritrea right now because of her faith, or the early Christians who were tortured by the tens of thousands while holding firm to their faith and joy and the literal result was the explosion of church growth - DURING this persecution. (Talk about not compromising your theology to attract 'seekers').

Clearly peace is not always the expected outcome of even the most sincere, spirit-filled devoted believers.
 

Pat Hartman

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I was just curious which post you were responding to?
Not yours:) You weren't the person to post the Biblical reference.
 

Jason Lee Hayes

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You might want to read the Koran and Shariah Law. See if that changes your mind any. Originally Mohamad thought of us all as "people of the book" since Islam like Christianity is also based on the Old Testament. But as Mohamad failed to convince the Jews and Christians that he was the new prophet and they refused to accept him, his mood changed and we became the enemy. The Koran is tough to read. It isn't chronological or grouped by topic. It is composed of Surah's that are organized by their length so the shortest are first and they get progressively longer. I think that is because they force children to memorize it and so it is easier to start with the shorter passages.

The Koran advocates killing people who won't submit to Islam. They also hold slaves and practice polygamy. But unlike the Mormons who put no cap on the number of wives, Islam only permits 4. But the wives don't have any say if the man wants to add to his haram. Islam also encourages temporary "marriages". Sort of like paying for a call girl for the week but sanctioned by the Koran and again, the wife has no say in the matter. Go to any country where Shariah law is imposed and see if you can find a Christian church - any denomination.. How about a Temple? In your dreams. Jews are the ultimate enemy. How about a peaceful community of Amish or an Ashram? Non believers are barely tolerated for business reasons. They are not welcome as residents let alone citizens. In fact, Muslims from other countries aren't even welcome as citizens. Kuwait did have one Catholic church. That was to keep their Indian servant class quiet. In Kuwaiti households, most of the Indian servants slept in a corner of the kitchen or garage on a mat if they were not lucky enough to work in a household with servant quarters. So, they were very happy to work for an American or British family since we treated them like people rather than furniture.

Speaking about Jews being the enemy, one of my best friends is from a family whose whole village was expelled from Iraq in the 1930's. His family moved to China where my friend was born. Then to Australia, Canada, and finally the US. He's spent the last 40 years as an import consultant working as a go-between for American companies needing to source batteries from China using the Mandarin he learned as a small child.

The first nanny we hired turned out to be an escaped sex slave. She was only with us for three weeks and we all loved her when she came to me to tell me she had to leave. I spent a week dragging her around town to embassies, lawyers, and government offices. There wasn't a thing I could do for her. The Indian embassy would issue her a new passport and transportation home although I would have paid for that myself if I had to. Short of that, she had to return to the Kuwaiti who had bought her from her father. Clearly, she would end up on the street if she went home (If you want to call it that), so she went back to her owner. We were too poor to buy her outright from her owner and we were not in a position to just leave when we'd only been there for less than a month and the US wouldn't let me sponsor her for a US visa because we were living in Kuwait. so I couldn't send her home to my mother.

I spent a year living in Kuwait and met a lot of friendly people. Mostly men. Kuwaiti women were homebound unless they were shopping and so there were no social opportunities to meet them although I did meet a number of Lebanese and Egyptian women at the bridge club. Their husbands were businessmen or diplomats. But I also learned a lot about Islam and their beliefs

We are now teaching our children Critical Race Theory so they learn to hate each other but Islam has a big head start. The Madras' in poor Muslim countries funded by rich Muslims from around the world teach the boys nothing but the Koran and hatred for the West. Just enough to make them semi-literate. They are easier to turn into suicide bombers that way. They don't bother teaching the girls. The girls aren't worth teaching in their estimation.

My choice - welcome immigrants who come because they want to become Americans but no others. If Refugees in war-torn areas won't be accepted by the surrounding countries where they share the same customs, religion, and language, why should we take them when they start out with hatred in their hearts like Ilhan Omar. No good comes of this. We rescued her from a refugee camp, housed her, fed her, clothed her, educated her, elected her to Congress, and she absolutely HATEs us. Think about this clearly. None of the stable countries of the region will accept refugees. Why? Morocco is a pretty nice place. I've been there and would love to go back. Sound, safe, surely able to afford to integrate at least some refugees. Why won't they accept Somali or Syrian refugees? What do they know that we don't know?
For a minute there I thought I clicked on the wrong forum. Why would we need or wish to bring the topic of religion and beliefs into this group. Can't we leave that to other dedicated forums, nothing good will come of it; it will inevitable devide us....
 

Pat Hartman

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@Jason Lee Hayes -- Not sure why you are blaming this on me. I didn't start the thread. If you are not interested, please stop reading rather than trying to censor others.
 

NauticalGent

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For a minute there I thought I clicked on the wrong forum. Why would we need or wish to bring the topic of religion and beliefs into this group. Can't we leave that to other dedicated forums, nothing good will come of it; it will inevitable devide us....
You're in the WaterCooler...this is where these type of conversations take place. As Pat has suggested, you can either choose not to enter or simply place this portion of AWF on ignore.
 

Jason Lee Hayes

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Sorry Pat, wasn't aimed at you directly.. I posted a general statement that happened to link to your message. You are quite right; it should be directed to the author of the thread. i just feel like you any one can say anything they like however I joined Access World to to talk about MS Access and anything relevant to it. Religion, Faith and belief unless I'm loosing the plot has nothing to do with MS Access.
 

Pat Hartman

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Jason, As NG pointed out, the WaterCooler has nothing whatsoever to do with Access. If you are easily offended, this is treacherous territory and snowflakes should not enter. AWF is a pretty civil forum compared to many others. We may not agree with each other but we are generally courteous and have long conversations and in the end, that is the only way you can ever come to understand an opposing view. You may not change your opinion, but you'll come away with new knowledge.

Personally, I almost never come here. But for some reason Uncle's thread peeked my interest and given that I have first hand knowledge having spent a year living as a stranger in a strange land, I jumped in. Turns out that my job in Kuwait required me to understand parts of Shariah Law and between that and the sex slave experience, I felt a need to contribute some first hand experiences regarding Islam in the 20th century..
 

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