Religion

[statsman]

I've made it no big secret around here that I am a Christian and, while I love the church I'm attending, I can see where there are instances of organized religion becoming corrupt. Such as the problem that the Catholic Church is facing with so many of their priests being child molesters and their covering up the problem rather than confronting it. I can see how someone could get soured on religion when faced with something like that.

The current policy of the Roman Catholic Church WORLDWIDE is to turn child molesting priests over to the civil authorities. The cover-up days are over.

By the way, Star Wars is a work of FICTION.

 

[Rich]

By the way, Star Wars is a work of FICTION.

So is the bible

 

[jsanders]

So is the bible

That's funny because secular scholars find it to be an accurate history.

You’re so predictable, when I first read that (about the Star Wars being fiction) I almost made the comment that Rich would soon post that the bible was fiction. I guess I continue to hold out faith in you Rich.

 

[dan-cat]

I cannot reveal names because the person in question is not "out" to the world, but one of my friends got burned when he dared reveal his preferences.

Dang I thought they just excommunicated you nowadays

 

[dan-cat]

That's funny because secular scholars find it to be an accurate history.

Accurately accounting talking donkeys?

 

[dan-cat]

The current policy of the Roman Catholic Church WORLDWIDE is to turn child molesting priests over to the civil authorities. The cover-up days are over.

How comforting...

By the way, Star Wars is a work of FICTION.

...and is acknowledged as such.

 

[MrsGorilla]

And it is all because people who are DIFFERENT are soundly castigated in churches these days.

How sad. This doesn't happen in my church and I wouldn't go to one where it did. It is true that people of (ahem) lesser intelligence can be "brainwashed" by a church leader who happens to also be a bigot.

To which I say, learn love. Wasn't that the message of the central figure of Christianity?

Exactly. Which is why churches that preach hatred of gays or others are not churches preaching the true Christian message.

All of this makes me sad because I don't have any answers regarding whether there is or isn't a big-G God. But if He is so hateful, so vengeful, so petty as that, then He doesn't deserve the capital letters. Or any other special type of reverence. Because that isn't the action of a God. That kind of hatred is the action of a petty, vain, foolish, vengeful MAN who CLAIMS to have heard a message from God. Only MEN are that low.

You've hit the nail on the head with your last statement. Men are the ones who are imperfect and unfortunately, full of hate. God isn't. To be honest, if that were the message of Christianity I wouldn't want any part of it. However, I know it isn't the true message. You do have to search for the right place to attend though. I know it's harder than it should be to find a good church.

 

[MrsGorilla]

How comforting...

It's only taken decades and a severe decline in the reputation of the church to make it happen.

 

[Rich]

That's funny because secular scholars find it to be an accurate history.

That's why Hollywood's made more films about the supposed events in the bible than Star Wars flicks

 

[ShaneMan]

I hesitate to comment on this subject cause this is the very subject that causes some folks here to be unable to have a mature adult like disagreement.

I really don’t how to answer the question with its choices. I believe that religion in and of it’s self has become corrupt. Churches have mainly become a social club. Those that represent it have become poor representatives of it, which I believe is why so many folks cannot see any good in it and do not what to have any part of it. The problem with religion is that so many man made rules have been brought into it and whatever man gets involved in usually gets messed up. I do however feel that a relationship is different than religion. Most folks that I encounter make the Bible say what they want it to say and create God to be what they want Him to be. Neither stacks up to what the Bible itself says. I’m sure there are plenty of things in the Bible that folks here consider to be harsh or something that a “loving God” wouldn’t do. For me I take the Bible for what it says. I don’t try to make it say something it doesn’t nor do I make apologies for what it does say. The Bible does not teach to hate homosexuals but it does say that God hates the sin of homosexuality (see Romans chapter 1 for an example) it is sad that folks translate that into hate the individual but this is nothing more than someone being a poor representative of what the Bible does say. It calls it a sin. Just the same as in calls adultery, fornication and other sexual sins, a sin. I do believe there is a God and I believe that God showed the best example of love by sending His Son to die in my place. Unfortunately, there are bad representatives of this message, me included, but that doesn’t mean the message itself is a bunch of fair tales.

If this opens up a can of worms for the sarcastic darts to begin, then so be it, but you asked so I tried to answer as honestly as those that claim there is no God.

 

[Rich]

and I believe that God showed the best example of love by sending His Son to die in my place.

Why 2,000 years ago, why not during the horrors of two world wars?

 

[dan-cat]

Why 2,000 years ago, why not during the horrors of two world wars?

Some would say that it suited the roman empire to install a public figurehead that preached submission. Give up all your material possessions and turn the other cheek in return for a fantastic afterlife. Of course the planned effect was the dumbing down of the local populace and transfer of wealth to the empire. That's the carrot and all you need as the stick is the threat of hellfire to encourage the sceptics.

I'd like to pose one question. Where is the condemnation of slavery in the scriptures?

 

[Greyowlsl]

that doesn’t mean the message itself is a bunch of fair tales.

For you it may be, but for me it is left open. There is not evidence to show that there really is a god, but as there is also no evidence that god does not exsist. Your god is just as real as the egyptians belived their gods were.

A battle of conversion is how the relgion game is played.

 

[Greyowlsl]

That last bit comes off a bit on the arrogant side, don't you think?

No, it's just what I want to believe...

 

[ShaneMan]

Some would say that it suited the roman empire to install a public figurehead that preached submission. Give up all your material possessions and turn the other cheek in return for a fantastic afterlife. Of course the planned effect was the dumbing down of the local populace and transfer of wealth to the empire. That's the carrot and all you need as the stick is the threat of hellfire to encourage the sceptics.

I'd like to pose one question. Where is the condemnation of slavery in the scriptures?

Some could say that but then the logic of it would have to be questioned, since the Roman Empire was killing Christians by the thousands. Using them as torches for their roads. As a sporting event in the coliseums. Dragging them behind chariots and etc. How much sense would it make to kill the very cash cow that you intend to soak the money from?

As far as your question on slavery. The Old Testament is essentially Jewish history and since the Jews have been enslaved more than any race known to man, then it really deals more with how to be as a slave. The New Testament really doesn’t deal much with it as a subject. There are mentions of slaves and masters but that is more in reference to employee and employer. How to treat your fellow man is in the Bible and owning another man as a slave would not be a good representation of how a fellow human should be treated.

 

[ShaneMan]

For you it may be, but for me it is left open. There is not evidence to show that there really is a god, but as there is also no evidence that god does not exsist. Your god is just as real as the egyptians belived their gods were.

A battle of conversion is how the relgion game is played.

I can see the logic of why you would word it this way. I do believe there is much more evidence to Biblical accounts of history, but it's usually not going to be anything someone who is already a critic of is going to go along with. If scientist or archeologist find something that would back up what is said in the Bible then there are alternate arguments made up pretty quick afterwards to down play anything that is written in it. Men find what they are looking for. If a man chooses to believe the Bible as a fairy tale then a fairy tale is what it’s going to be. If they choose to say they don’t believe it then not believing it is what they are going to do. I have met self-proclaiming atheist but I have not found one yet that basis their decision on facts about God or the Bible. When asked why they don’t believe the closest to a factual answer that I will get is that I just don’t believe. It would seem to me that if someone was going to make such a hard stand against something then they would at least know a good deal about what their standing against. My impression is that men claim there is no God because they don’t want there to be a God, especially one that may have something to say about how they are living.

 

[Greyowlsl]

I can see the logic of why you would word it this way. I do believe there is much more evidence to Biblical accounts of history, but it's usually not going to be anything someone who is already a critic of is going to go along with. If scientist or archeologist find something that would back up what is said in the Bible then there are alternate arguments made up pretty quick afterwards to down play anything that is written in it. Men find what they are looking for. If a man chooses to believe the Bible as a fairy tale then a fairy tale is what it’s going to be. If they choose to say they don’t believe it then not believing it is what they are going to do. I have met self-proclaiming atheist but I have not found one yet that basis their decision on facts about God or the Bible. When asked why they don’t believe the closest to a factual answer that I will get is that I just don’t believe. It would seem to me that if someone was going to make such a hard stand against something then they would at least know a good deal about what their standing against. My impression is that men claim there is no God because they don’t want there to be a God, especially one that may have something to say about how they are living.

I see your view, and this may be true.
I have been baptised, i have been taught religion for 7 years in school, I have never been to church and prayed but i have prayed and belived in god and his religion, but at around 10 years old it just faded away. I dont even know if my parents believe in god still. I feel it is a way of life that needs to be in use otherwise there becomes no need to believe and 'he' is forgotten. Not long after, many other influences change our allready miniscule beliefs into new self attuned beliefs that are changed and updated all the time.

 

[dan-cat]

Some could say that but then the logic of it would have to be questioned, since the Roman Empire was killing Christians by the thousands. Using them as torches for their roads. As a sporting event in the coliseums. Dragging them behind chariots and etc. How much sense would it make to kill the very cash cow that you intend to soak the money from?

Well the answer to that one is fairly simple. It's because of the mal-treatment that the populace needed dumbing down. From a roman point of view: We like feeding christians to lions but we don't want a revolution, so lets find some rhetoric that will persuade them that if they keep quiet then they'll be rewarded after they're dead. If they don't then they're in danger of hellfire.

EDIT: The parable of the rich man and Lazarus encapsulates this.

The New Testament really doesn’t deal much with it as a subject.

but the Old Testament did big time. The issue of slavery was still pertinent and yet completely ignored. Indeed one could argue that it was encouraged to forget about the past battles against slavery.

"For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ."

John 1: 17

 

[ColinEssex]

My impression is that men claim there is no God because they don’t want there to be a God, . . . . . ..

If there was at least a shred of evidence that there was a God or Christ or whatever then more people would believe it.
The scribblings of some lunatic in a book is not definitive evidence.

Anyway, as I have said before, its a bit of a sod if you follow christianity to the letter and Hindu turns out to be the "true" religion - what a choker

Anyway, arn't there 2 gods in America? - cars and money - thats it

Col

 

[jsanders]

If there was at least a shred of evidence that there was a God or Christ or whatever then more people would believe it.
Col

That's funny Col, cause at last count there are at least 1,000,000,000 Christians and the same number or so of Muslims, all believing in I Am; or Allah if you prefer.