Religion

[jsanders]

We have AA in this country, they use willpower and therapy, not fairy tales and man's fear of the unknown

Man's fear of the unknown?

How does that compute?

 

[Keith Nichols]

I.... i feed on facts and good intentions, i don't believe there is a good or bad and i like to have and open mind about everything......

Greyowlsl,

Although a bit older, I am a father of young children (3 under 4) and this changes your perspective on things. Even as an atheist, I am happy to believe in the concept of evil (in my terms innate 'badness').

Thankfully, the horror stories are rare and so they make the news (if they were common, we wouldn't be told about them) but people do extraordinarily bad things to others, never defensible, but it is at a whole different level when these immoral things are done to the defenceless, such as children.

You are a young guy and, if you are lucky, will not have had too many horrible things in your life. I haven't done badly over my life, but as you move through the world, you meet people who have seen evil first hand. Be alive to the fact that it exists but don't let this knowledge prevent you from living your life to the full.

 

[Rich]

Man's fear of the unknown?

Yes, that's why he believes in fairy tales

 

[ShaneMan]

I think we both know that faith in God plummeted after two world wars but more so after the second, surely you can see how I arrive at that statement.
Unless God allowed their sacrifice as some sort of test of their love for him, doesn't sound like a loving deity to me.

I fail to see the connection of two WW and man's faith. Throughout history man's faith in God has had times up and times down. The Dark Ages and then follows the reformation age. In one age it looks like it's plummeting in the other it looks like it's taking over the world. More to the point, though, what do you think a God (if one existed) should have done during these wars? Man started them. If He butts in then their are plenty that would have the old puppet on a string argument. If He doesn't butt in then He simply does not care. I doubt seriously that it was a "test of their love for Him." What makes you think He did let man down. What if there is a God and He did do something in WWII? Have you ever thought about what this world would be like today if Germany, Japan, and Italy would have gotten their way?

 

[Rich]

Why would God have let Germany and Japan gettheir way?
Why did he not insist that man loved and worshiped his fellow man and not himself?

 

[ShaneMan]

Why would God have let Germany and Japan gettheir way?
Why did he not insist that man loved and worshiped his fellow man and not himself?

In my opinion, His actions speak for themselves and He didn't allow them to get their way. God does command that man love his fellow man (not worship) but He does not make robots out of man, so it is up to man to obey what He has commanded. If God steps in on mans life and takes over and forces him to do as he has been commanded, then God has made puppets or robots and mans complaint is that God never lets him do anything on his own accord, however if God commands man to do something and man refuses to obey, then He takes the heat with arguments of "why isn't God doing something about this?" God did not start the WW, man did. Man did not obey what was commanded of him to love his neighbor as himself so he attacks other men, then we humans turn around and want this God to fix all these screw ups we've made. I don't believe that God expected the UK to just get blown off the map so now they have to defend themselves from an aggressor who has decided to be disobedient.

If there truly is a God and He created all things, then would it not make sense for this God to insist that He be worshipped by His creation?

 

[Greyowlsl]

Greyowlsl,

Although a bit older, I am a father of young children (3 under 4) and this changes your perspective on things. Even as an atheist, I am happy to believe in the concept of evil (in my terms innate 'badness').

Thankfully, the horror stories are rare and so they make the news (if they were common, we wouldn't be told about them) but people do extraordinarily bad things to others, never defensible, but it is at a whole different level when these immoral things are done to the defenceless, such as children.

You are a young guy and, if you are lucky, will not have had too many horrible things in your life. I haven't done badly over my life, but as you move through the world, you meet people who have seen evil first hand. Be alive to the fact that it exists but don't let this knowledge prevent you from living your life to the full.

Yes but you are older and more intune with the world and as part of it you must believe in the norm. Your experience with living in this world if far greater than mine but you also have sealed off your mind to the imaginitive and unknown posibilities, you fit nicely with everyone else. I however have less experience so i still take in the possibilities of things that seem totaly unlikely, but i like it. Such as i believe we are the third most inteligent lifeform on earth. Guessing by you, it would be unthinkable for you to even consider that theory. All people do bad things this does not make them a bad person. According to Law half our population is a criminal.

 

[Rich]

If there truly is a God and He created all things, then would it not make sense for this God to insist that He be worshipped by His creation?

No, I didn't insist my family worshiped me

 

[ShaneMan]

No, I didn't insist my family worshiped me

Poor example. If you fashioned them from dust and breathed life into them then forgive me for saying a poor example, otherwise I'm pretty sure that you did it the same way all of fathers did. The only part you played is fertilizing the egg so that means you only had 1/2 a part in causing a life to be formed.

 

[jsanders]

Such as i believe we are the third most inteligent lifeform on earth.

And what are the first two?

 

[Greyowlsl]

And what are the first two?

Whales, then dolphins.

 

[jsanders]

Whales, then dolphins.

And you base this on what?

 

[Greyowlsl]

And you base this on what?

Their ability to not corrupt and take over the world such as we do. Their serenity and connection with the world and nature. Whales are so great yet almost do nothing to hinder nature. Dolphins see us as a source of attention and easy food. They have an imence ability to learn and we have imence ability to create. Whales a prey of nothing but us (well japs actually), and preditor of nothing but bacteria. They do not need bombs and technology. Although this may sound ridiculous, but it's no less true than there being a god.

 

[jsanders]

Their ability to not corrupt and take over the world such as we do. Their serenity and connection with the world and nature. Whales are so great yet almost do nothing to hinder nature. Dolphins see us as a source of attention and easy food. They have an imence ability to learn and we have imence ability to create. Whales a prey of nothing but us (well japs actually), and preditor of nothing but bacteria. They do not need bombs and technology. Although this may sound ridiculous, but it's no less true than there being a god.

Their ability to exist within their environment is not a testimony to their intelligence, rather our inability to control our wanton destruction is indeed testimony to our stupidity. Which as you know, stupidity is not connected to intelligence. The ecosystem of the planet is replete with animals of very low intelligence existing within the confines of their habitat.

Actually baleen whales eat zooplankton which is a mixture of nearly microscopic marine animals.

Orcas which are dolphins prey on just about any marine life large enough to attract their attention.

I’m not disputing the possibility of these majestic marine mammals being more intelligent than us, but I’m afraid your arguments are week for their case.

As for the possibility of God, It is only ridicules if you choose to except that all forces in the universe have their basis in mater. Which is very far from being proven, at this point, in our understanding of the nature of things.

At the elemental level there exist theories that the fundamental building block of atoms (matter) is merely momentum without mass. Which translates to, all mater is but a dream held together by a force, or maybe a just a word.

 

[dan-cat]

Most theologians believe that the rich man and Lazarus was probably not a parable.

Well the non-universalists anyway

I guess the Roman Empires plan has worked to a certain degree. Their Empire fell so I guess that didn't work out, but the "dumbing down" of folks did work, cause there are a large number of us less than intelligent folks who still buy this made up story hook, line and stinker.

Well first off, I wasn't wanting to suggest that Christians are dumb. If I came across that way, then I apologise. Anyway, the roman empire lasted for several hundred years. Conclusion: They knew how to suppress their opponents. I'm just saying that this kind of rhetoric would not have been beyond them.

Outside of that I'm not sure the point that your driving at so even the verse you have quoted from John is not fitting in for me, so I guess I need a little more explaination to understand were your driving us to.

The new testament was the new covenant. The replacement of Moses's law with the preachings of Jesus. The old covenant described rebellion. The release of the tribes of Israel from Egypt and Moses's defiance of authority. All this has been replaced with submission and acceptance of poverty.

I'm playing devil's advocate here. Just toying with the idea that the turn the other cheek instead of the eye for the eye could have been designed by an authority wanting a submissive populace.

"You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth'. But I say to you, do not resist an evildoer. If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Matthew 5:38-39)

Do not resist an evil-doer could actually mean let the romans have their fun, perhaps?

 

[Greyowlsl]

Their ability to exist within their environment is not a testimony to their intelligence, rather our inability to control our wanton destruction is indeed testimony to our stupidity. Which as you know, stupidity is not connected to intelligence. The ecosystem of the planet is replete with animals of very low intelligence existing within the confines of their habitat.

At the elemental level there exist theories that the fundamental building block of atoms (matter) is merely momentum without mass. Which translates to, all mater is but a dream held together by a force, or maybe a just a word.

The possibility of a thought must not be explained for it is the very thing that makes us human. Theories about god, matter and intelligence are all things we will not know therefore they must not be explained only thought. A few decades ago we had a very different impression on what we would be doing today, which none could of imagined. We try to explain the unexplainable with theories and facts that are far greater than our knowledge of life and our experience in life, the only explination comes from your heart and your spiritual mind.

 

[jsanders]

The possibility of a thought must not be explained for it is the very thing that makes us human. Theories about god, matter and intelligence are all things we will not know therefore they must not be explained only thought. A few decades ago we had a very different impression on what we would be doing today, which none could of imagined. We try to explain the unexplainable with theories and facts that are far greater than our knowledge of life and our experience in life, the only explination comes from your heart and your spiritual mind.

So then... there is a God?

 

[Greyowlsl]

So then... there is a God?

Well what do you think...

 

[Rich]

Poor example. If you fashioned them from dust and breathed life into them then forgive me for saying a poor example, otherwise I'm pretty sure that you did it the same way all of fathers did. The only part you played is fertilizing the egg so that means you only had 1/2 a part in causing a life to be formed.

No it's a perfect example of natural love, not enforced by fear and threats, anyway I thought childbirth was God's doing

 

[ColinEssex]

I'll tell you what also gets on my nerves about so called religious people. Its the "greater than thou" attitude of them, as if they are in some way superior.

And also, the way they always cop out of a decision by saying "I prayed about it and it is gods will I did . . . . . xyz"

Normal people make a decision and stand by that decision and take the rap if it goes tits-up - religious people always have a smarmy cop-out answer and never take any responsibility for their actions.

Like that lunatic dictator Bush - ""God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East."ref

What total crap! things like this do nothing to enhance christianity, other than to confirm it as being a total joke

Col