The One True Religion

[ShaneMan]

I think so. Thanks for that..

Your welcome

But faith is able to exist entirely without the presence of logic, isn't it? Logic suggests proof and if something need be proven before someone can have faith in it, where is the trust? While faith isn't based on a lack of logic, I do think that the two can, indeed must, often be mutually exclusive.

If one believes that God created the universe and eveything in it from scratch, there isn't really a logical way to explain how He did it. Whatever method was used would have been so far beyond any human conceptions of 'logical' as to be outside the accepted definition of the word.

Faith without logic, able to exist? Off the top of my head, I think "no." At least not my faith in God. I believe there is proof of His exisistance. I think logic can get me to that point. I also have faith and trust that He is real. I think there are logical explainations to God creating but also think that one man reads the explaination and says, makes sense. Another reads it and says "hog wash." Same is true of evolution. There are probably just as many books on one way being true as there are books on how it can't be. Somewhere along the way a man makes a choice as to what he wants to believe.

Also, one may have a family member who is suffering tremendous pain in spite of having lived a good life. One may also believe in a kind and merciful God. The fact that Logic - as humans understand it - can't really reconcile the belief with the physical evidence, doesn't mean that one's faith disappears

True, but I do think this can have an explaination also. The Bible says that the rain falls on the just as well as the unjust. No one is immuned from good and bad things happening to them. Whether they are good or bad doesn't factor in. Somehow religion has turned God into a magic wand or a jennie in a bottle. If I'm good everything good happens to me and not bad. If I'm bad the other way around. This is not taught in the Bible. Jesus said take up your cross and follow me. Doesn't sound like I'm immuned from pain, suffering or bad things happening to me.

 

[Rich]

Yet from this universe a new one was instantaneously created. What conditions changed? Why had it existed for countless time then all at once metamorphed into what we now call the universe?

Only faith on the part of evolutionist will ever explain that one. We simply cannot go observe the pre big bang existence.

No it's simple all the matter in the pre existing big bang period simply drew the pre existing universe back into a mammoth black hole, the elements of the universe have always been there

 

[KenHigg]

yes, and in the context it was used

Did you see where I said I was sorry?

 

[ShaneMan]

Yet from this universe a new one was instantaneously created. What conditions changed? Why had it existed for countless time then all at once metamorphed into what we now call the universe?

Only faith on the part of evolutionist will ever explain that one. We simply cannot go observe the pre big bang existence.

and why hasn't it happened again? Big bang? Yes, I do believe in it. God spoke and bang it came into existence. (Don't run with this just having some fun)

 

[ShaneMan]

No it's simple all the matter in the pre existing big bang period simply drew the pre existing universe back into a mammoth black hole, the elements of the universe have always been there

Where did the elements of the universe come from? If they are eternal, have alway been, then there's your answer Col. You should believe in the universe is God, not the sun.

 

[jsanders]

No it's simple all the matter in the pre existing big bang period simply drew the pre existing universe back into a mammoth black hole, the elements of the universe have always been there

And you know all this how?

Ah yes faith.

 

[Rich]

Where did the elements of the universe come from? .

Where did God come from?

 

[Rich]

And you know all this how?

Ah yes faith.

Logic

 

[ShaneMan]

Where did God come from?

He's eternal. Has no beginning and no end. That's why, for me, He's God.

 

[ShaneMan]

Where did God come from?

BTW you answered my question with a question. Mine is still on the table.

 

[Matt Greatorex]

Take for example the laws of the universe.

....

Only faith on the part of evolutionist will ever explain that one. We simply cannot go observe the pre big bang existence.

Yes. But as we find out new things about the universe and it's contents, different theories emerge and are considered. A religion is bound to faith-based explanation for certain things, regardless of whether or not logic dictates otherwise.

Look at the whole 'Sun revolves around the Earth' argument. It was only very recently (1992) that the Catholic church officially acknowledged that this wasn't the case. This was in spite of considerable logical evidence to the contrary having been accepted by most people for a long time. Who's to say that - in a hundred or even thousand years from now - the same won't happen with regard to other areas of thought? Some people will still choose to believe what they have learned from their religion, based purely on faith.

 

[ShaneMan]

Yes. But as we find out new things about the universe and it's contents, different theories emerge and are considered. A religion is bound to faith-based explanation for certain things, regardless of whether or not logic dictates otherwise.

Look at the whole 'Sun revolves around the Earth' argument. It was only very recently (1992) that the Catholic church officially acknowledged that this wasn't the case. This was in spite of considerable logical evidence to the contrary having been accepted by most people for a long time. Who's to say that - in a hundred or even thousand years from now - the same won't happen with regard to other areas of thought? Some people will still choose to believe what they have learned from their religion, based purely on faith.

I don't remember the Bible saying anything about how the earth and sun revolve. Wonder where the Catholic church got there information to make a stand on that?

 

[jsanders]

Where did the elements of the universe come from? If they are eternal, have alway been, then there's your answer Col. You should believe in the universe is God, not the sun.

At the most elemental state, it is theorized that matter doesn't exist at all; that all matter is made up of pure inertia. This is supported by many of the simpler Einsteinian observations on time and space.

The very fact that an electron can move virtually at the speed of light presupposes a mass of 0. Otherwise its mass would grow to infinity as it approaches C.

So at what point in did it become "tangible"?

 

[Rich]

BTW you answered my question with a question. Mine is still on the table.

The universe is eternal, it has no beginning and no end.

 

[ShaneMan]

The universe is eternal, it has no beginning and no end.

Then is it God?

 

[Rich]

Then is it God?

If you define mother nature as the universe then yes

 

[ShaneMan]

Sorry guys, but I have to go do my job, which means I have to get in my truck and drive. Dang it, this was the first time in a long time that I have enjoyed being here. Thanks to all and have a good day. (whats left of it to are UK folks)

 

[jsanders]

The universe is eternal, it has no beginning and no end.

And you know this how?

 

[jsanders]

Sorry guys, but I have to go do my job, which means I have to get in my truck and drive. Dang it, this was the first time in a long time that I have enjoyed being here. Thanks to all and have a good day. (whats left of it to are UK folks)

Well it looks like we have more in common than I might have imagined earlier. next time I'm back home I'll look you up for a lunch or something. Mom and Dad own a small farm right outside of Lone Star.

 

[Kraj]

I believe there is proof of His exisistance. I think logic can get me to that point. I also have faith and trust that He is real.

The significant question here is which came first for you. Faith, by definition, is belief held without proof. If you contemplate the existence of God and use logic to prove He exists, then your belief is not faith. It is based on logic. This is a mutually exclusive relationship.

However, you can start the process with faith - a proofless belief in the existence of God - and from there construct logical arguments to support your belief. In that case, faith and logic are not mutually exclusive.