Senators Obama, Clinton, Biden and Dodd Vote AGAINST English as our Official Language (1 Viewer)

[dkinley]

It is the coming together of diversity that has made our nation great.

It is the splitting of our nation into diverse groups that is making it not so great.

I am all for hanging onto culture and celebrating differences, but at the basic level we need to communicate. It is obvious that no matter the spoken language, we have a mandated standard of binary for our base technical language because something better hasn't came along. That is something Americans (and the world) has agreed on.

In the same way, I think there should be a standard spoken language and it should be English. It will eventually gravitate to whatever might be better. We don't speak in thee's and thou's anymore, is that better? From what I've seen and heard from the purists is that the English language is being destroyed and corrupted. Perhaps street lingo and slang is a better way to communicate. Sarcastically, you don't have to be clear and concise when you use the terms. "Oh, that's bad," as opposed to "Oh, thats bad." One means very good, the other means very awful. No wonder we don't understand legaleze anymore. Our everyday language has gravitated from that and now chat-speak has entered the spoken vocabulary and used in day-to-day conversation.

As far as immigration, I think there are baseline levels that need to be set so we do have something in common and we can define an American in the same terms with the same definition in order to provide some cohesiveness to our nation. In regards to sign language, there are like 20 - 30 different sign languages. You would obviously had to mandate a particular one in the same circumstance.

For my vote, I think we should adopt Klingonese as the spoken language of the world so noone has an advantage except for Marc Okrand and Christopher Lloyd.

-dK

 

[speakers_86]

To be fair, there is no such thing as 'English'. English as spoken in North American are not same as English as spoken in UK, India, or Australia. Last time I checked, there were probably eight major dialects of English, and they have since developed their own idiosyncrasies that sets it apart from another dialect.

This will happen with any language that is not dead. This is way latin is used in science and medicine. Since no one speaks latin, it wont change anytime soon. Also I think whining over the way someone else speaks english has more to do with accents than their grammar.


Its a shame that more emphasize is not placed on learning a foreign language here in the states. I think it makes us look ignorant to the rest of the world, as children in other countries can often speak 2+ languages. Being multicultural in education is not anti-patriotic, especially in this global world we live in. After 12 years of grade school and moslty through my undergrad, the best I can do is broken spanish, but even thats fading from lack of use. How sad!

 

[Brianwarnock]

but even thats fading from lack of use

But that is a key problem for English speakers, I'm 67 in a few days time and have travelled, as a tourist mainly, but occasionally as a company rep, to many countries, and I could probably count on the fingers of one hand the number of times when a good grasp of another, and not always the same , language would have been useful, I'm not against learning other languages. far from it, but how many times have I struggled to speak a foreign language only to have the response come back in English, this even happened to a friend with us who was a Spanish language teacher and wanted to sharpen up her language.

Brian

 

[Rich]

I think it makes us look ignorant to the rest of the world,

I can assure you that's far from the rest of the world's reason for thinking that about Americans

 

[ColinEssex]

Also I think whining over the way someone else speaks english has more to do with accents than their grammar.


Its a shame that more emphasize. . .

How about correct tenses and spelling? I'm sure if the Yanks spoke, wrote and spelt properly, they would be taken more seriously.

Col

 

[ColinEssex]

I think it makes us look ignorant to the rest of the world,

No need for you to look ignorant to the rest of the world.

Col

 

[dkinley]

How about correct tenses and spelling? I'm sure if the Yanks spoke, wrote and spelt properly, they would be taken more seriously.Col

.. spelt?

.. wrote and had ancient wheat properly ...


-dK

 

[Rich]

.. spelt?



-dK

spelt

past and past participle of [SIZE=-1]SPELL[/SIZE]

 

[dkinley]

Aye ... I know, just giving grief.

Used across the pond, but not used here.

-dK

 

[Rich]

Aye ... I know, just giving grief.

Used across the pond, but not used here.

-dK

Yet another weapon in our armoury

 

[dkinley]

hehehe
-dk

 

[Pat Hartman]

I see that this post has also devolved to one liners but I haven't been around for a few days so I'll add my comments anyway.

I believe that it is critical for a national identity for all citizens to speak a common language. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't speak another. All educated people should endevor to speak a foreign language and foreign languages should be taught from the first grade. Children are sponges when it comes to language. They have no trouble speaking multiple languages fluently if taught young enough.

In the past, the various immigrant groups have made it a point to assimilate by learning English. They don't give up their "culture" to do this. We still have St. Patrick's day parades and Columbus day parades even though the waves of immigrants from Ireland and Italy stopped long ago. We're even celebrating Cinco de Mayo these days even though that is the Mexican independence day! The first generation almost never got rid of their accent but their children spoke English like the natives they were. Unfortunately, this latest wave of mass illegal immigration from south of the border doesn't seem to belive that they should assimilate. The result is we have second and third generation NATIVE Americans who do not speak the language of their own country. This is permitted, even encouraged, by public schooling in languages other than English.

Rather than separate but equal (like water fountains in the south), schools should use the same techniques as the professional language schools. Immersion works. English as a second language works. Most communities make it quite easy and FREE to attend these classes should one have the desire. What kind of job can a person aspire to in the US without speaking English. By refusing to force their children to learn the language, parents are dooming their children to a life of field labor or "will you have fries with that burger?". How can a person who doesn't speak the language work in a business environment or conduct a technical conversation or attend college? People who don't learn English will always be second class citizens. This is an issue for inner city blacks as well. It may be cool to talk like a gangsta but no job offers will be forth coming if you cannot speak the language of the nation.

But the thing that really irks me is the political pandering in Spanish. You need to be able to speak and read English to become a citizen. You need to be a citizen to vote so why do politions give speeches in Spanish? Are they trying to encourage non-citizens to vote? The reason for the English language requirement for citizenship is so you can make educated political decisions because you can read the printed news and listen to and understand the broadcast news. This makes new citizens less likely to be mis-informed by unethical translators.

The bottom line is that English as the official language doesn't mean that foreign language signs in international airports will be removed or foreign language broadcast stations would be removed from cable. It does mean that the burden of providing translations will fall more to the individual than the government. This is actually already the case for ALL languages except for Spanish. If you speak Hungarian and end up in a hospital, see how quickly a translator is found. See what your options are for educating your children in your native language.

I'm going to take some liberties with a folk saying -
If you teach a person to speak English, he will be a productive member of the US society, if you teach that person in Spanish, he will be a productive member of some other society.

 

[Banana]

Pat,

Wanted to say you make excellent points, and obviously you know far more about children's ability to learn multiple languages than most Americans, which is a thorn in my side personally. My concern with declaring English as the official language with the current mindset of the population would be to interpret it as that it should be the only language spoken.

I would gladly support it if it came with a clause mandating foreign language immersion in full spectrum of K-12 education (not just high school as it is the case for most schools that aren't in border states).

I have to concede that the illegal immigration controversy has quite complicated the issue, but even if we passed it, I don't think it would make them go away.

Ron Paul made a great argument for ending illegal immigrants: Abolish citizenship by birthplace. That would remove the incentives to have 'anchor babies' and risking breaking up the family. I would think this would do more to fix the problem than making English official language, IMHO.

 

[Pat Hartman]

I also agree that the folks who made the policy of citizenship by birth location did not envision the current mass migration. I believe it was intended to secure unquestioned citizenship for the children of slaves.

I would amend the law to confer citizenship by presence in the US only if the mother had a legal right to be here. Legal right being citizenship or legal resident status.

Unfortunately there are a lot of ignorant people in the world who will as you say interpret the law as justification for harassing the non-English speakers.

I do have experience with the spongyness of children. My best friend from childhood married one of my roommates who was from Belgum. Our daughters were born within a month of each other. I was baby-sitting for Celine one day when they were around 2 and she and my daughter were in the bedroom playing and I heard the door to the room opening and closing. I went to investigate and Celine was saying "open the door", "ferme la port" as she opened and closed the door. She started speaking about a month or two after my daughter but when she did, she spoke French to her mother, Lucy and English to everyone else.

 

[Len Boorman]

This is a problem in the UK as well. Recently there was a case where teachers at a school were lining sign language because there were children from approximately 35 different countries where english was not the first language. Additionally these children had not been taught any english at all.

The Head Master said. I cannot expect my staff to learn 35 languages. Therefore sign language is really the only alternative.

What a terrible situation. The parents of these children (indeed any parent whose children are in this situation) show an appalling lack of consideration for their children.

What happens if there is some sort of emergency, not unknown with kids. How do medical people communicate, How does the child communicate.

Frankly in my book

No residency temporary or permanent without a demonstrated ability to read and write the native language to a standard appropriate to their age.

Will also save a great deal of money where the Government prints welfare application forms etc in 57 different variaties.

L

 

[Rich]

Local council workers now have to carry a list printed in over ten languages of simple phrases to communicate with tenants.
Of course if anyone dares to point out that minorities now have more rights and are taken better care of than the majority they are simply branded racist.
I'm reminded of the classic call centre joke here
Press button 1 if you can speak English
Press button 2 until you can

 

[Pauldohert]

But that is a key problem for English speakers, I'm 67 in a few days time and have travelled, as a tourist mainly, but occasionally as a company rep, to many countries, and I could probably count on the fingers of one hand the number of times when a good grasp of another, and not always the same , language would have been useful, I'm not against learning other languages. far from it, but how many times have I struggled to speak a foreign language only to have the response come back in English, this even happened to a friend with us who was a Spanish language teacher and wanted to sharpen up her language.

Brian

I agree that leaning Latvian or whatever - would be rather pointless as even If I got rather good at it, there would still be 50% of the Latvian population would would be able to communicate with me better in English, than me in Latvian. English is so prevelant its easier to learn.

Having said that if you have only found a local language helpful a handful if times - I can only guess you have only got off the tour bus a handful of times - or avoid speaking to the locals?

 

[Brianwarnock]

I see that the man who refuses to read a whole post is back.

Brian

 

[Rabbie]

I agree that leaning Latvian or whatever - would be rather pointless as even If I got rather good at it, there would still be 50% of the Latvian population would would be able to communicate with me better in English, than me in Latvian. English is so prevelant its easier to learn.

Having said that if you have only found a local language helpful a handful if times - I can only guess you have only got off the tour bus a handful of times - or avoid speaking to the locals?

I worked in Sweden for 10 years and although you can manage extremely well in a work situation using only English it was essential to learn Swedish for social situations. It makes you more part of the country.

I feel that if you live in a country then you should speak its language.

 

[Pauldohert]

Are you refering to me Brain? - if so which bit did I miss - I read it all. Just obviuosly missed something?