The Debates - who won? (2 Viewers)

AccessBlaster

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I have to say uncle Joe came to play last night. I would have to give the first debate to Joe.
 

AccessBlaster

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Joe was able to pull it together for 90 mins, congrats to him! Now the cats out of the bag and strategies will change.

Trump's performance was bad. He needs to be clearer on the white supremacist issues. Trump should allow Joe to speak, people would see for themselves that his policy are faulty.

BTW the Democrat's are floating this idea that Antifa is an idea. Idea's do not burn down buildings and beat up journalist, people do. Also the notion of BLM has conducted mostly peaceful protesting should have been brought up.

Biden 1 Trump 0
 

Jon

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I think Trump did badly. And I think Wallace was slightly biased towards Biden. But then again Wallace is a Democrat and it is hard to fight your inclination. The betting companies think the first debate was a disaster for Trump, and I agree. Trump lost his likability factor because he was too confrontational. Maybe it was the strategy suggested to him. Who knows. In any case, I didn't like it. I think he needs a complete change of approach for the next debate.

1601485586318.png
 

Steve R.

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A very poor disappointing performance by Trump a the debate. The graph that Jon just posted is depressing. Biden has extreme shortcomings, yet most of the media just props Biden up with favorable treatement. At Biden's campaign whistle stop, a reporter asked Biden the softball question of what Biden thought of Trump's (alleged) failure to address "White supremacy", an unsubstantiated Democratic talking point. Biden was happy to spew out how deplorable Trump's remarks were. Unasked by the reporter were the hardball questions related to Biden's failure to condemn Black Lives Matter for their violence or Biden's outragous claim that if he were President that there would not have been any Covid-19 deaths. Trump needs to improve, as this is a very consequential election.
 

Isaac

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Having said that, most voters by this close to the election are entrenched in their voting plans. The only thing that matters is the people who are truly undecided. And I think some people maintain an 'undecided' posture just to be polite - i.e., they think they are taking a moral or intellectual high-road, by reserving judgment until the most final-of-final sets of information are out, very close to the election, but really already have a leaning. The true number of totally undecided voters is tiny. And in my opinion, there is yet another paring-down. If you are the type of person who is totally undecided this close to an election (and you can still make fog on glass), you may well also be the type of person who isn't actually going to go vote anyway. I mean, clearly, you're not overly passionate about these issues from the starting point.

So we finally get to the really undecideds, who will really vote.

... and decides the election. Out of those people ... did they watch? Were they changed? C'mon, you 35 people from Wisconsin ... let us know please!
 

Jon

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Out of those people ... did they watch? Were they changed?
The betting companies think so.
 

Isaac

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I used an app called Fox Super6, or something like that, to make some free 'bets' (guesses) on 6 subjects related to debate predictions. Each question had about 6 possible choices. I got 4 out of 6. On 3 of the ones I got right, my bet was different than the prevailing bets by about 74% to 15%.
 

Pat Hartman

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Most Americans don't understand the Electoral College. We can't really expect foreigners to.

Trump was awful but it doesn't really surprise me. He's a street fighter not a debater. Biden has spent 50 years talking to himself in mirrors as he practices answering questions. Trump drew blood but it kept splashing back in his face because this is not his game. He really needed to pay attention to his people and practice certain answers so he could deliver them like a robot the way all politicians do.

People who disliked Trump before the debate were confirmed in their opinions but I don't think Biden convinced anyone that he is anything but a tired 50 year politician with unworkable ideas that he could never implement either as a Senator or as Obama's VP. All he did in those 50 years is back the wrong side in all wars and make sure that money was funneled to his family to buy influence with him.
 
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Isaac

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Most Americans don't understand the Electoral College. We can't really expect foreigners to.
Yes, that's to be expected. When I see videos of U.K. governmental bodies version of verbal engagement - non-word forms of yelling, grunting & moaning, minus clapping - I can't honestly say as it all makes much sense to me either, but to each his own.

Amusingly, I now find myself saying the same thing that Biden supporters are: [That is, IF Trump can't modify his debate style going forward]: Cancel the rest of the debates.
 

Pat Hartman

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Jon and other non-Americans - I've said many times here that I believe that we have the best Congress money can buy. Luckily for us, the Police and municipal authorities are mostly not corrupt. Do you have the same feeling about your Congressional equivalents? Do people run for office initially with good intentions and then get corrupted by the system so that all they do is enrich themselves and their families instead of looking out for the "people's" interest? They go into Congress as members of the middle class and come out millionaires with generous life time pensions at the tax payer's expense..
 

Jon

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I believe there is corruption wherever you go. To me, the question is not so much about if it exists, but rather the extent.

I often refer to this to get a feel for things: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index

If I hear about allegations that country xyz's government did this or that, I look up that country in the corruption index. Then it gives me a more probabilistic guess over how likely it might be. When you have an allegation but no other data, you can improve your odds of making the right guess by adopting this approach, in my opinion.

Do some systems act as machines that turn out corrupt politicians? Undoubtably. It depends on the incentives. If they are aligned to encourage corruption, then it will happen. Case in point is Hunter Biden, enriching himself off the back of his fathers name. A favour deserves a return favour.

I think you could still be corrupt and act in people's interests. It depends on who's interests. Often there is a zero sum game where there are winners and losers. So if you weren't corrupt, you won't be acting in the interests of those who benefit from your corruption. Sounds like I am rambling now. :ROFLMAO:
 

Isaac

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And I think all of what you just said begs the question of the definition of corruption. I don't mean some internet website definition, but people's feeling about what is or isn't corrupt. "Corruption" to me is almost as vague as "inappropriate", maybe not quite. There is perhaps more agreement about generalized perceptions of corruption levels in countries, but much less agreement about whether a specific case-in-point was wrong--or corrupt.
Corruption almost seems like an undefined chunk of some imaginary continuum that represents the level of opportunistic behavior. Fiduciary duty coming into play ... but not necessarily making all cases easily able to be defined.
 

Jon

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There is a special name for a bribe in Nigeria, that was very similar to the concept of tipping, according to my old room mate from schooldays. Like we use the word tip, which is commonplace, theirs was bribe. So corruption was endemic in their culture, although it was perceived as just the way things were. He had to bribe the driving test examiner just to pass his test!
 

Isaac

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I love the deeper level of insight that comparing how terms or ideas are expressed in language, provides! Thanks - that's an interesting one. So going off of that, it just reminds me of how fluid it all is. In their opinion, then, maybe it isn't considered corruption. (That might not be the right example, but you can see what I mean about gray areas). For example, let's apply your friend's experience sort of in reverse. Someone could easily, when having first discovered a culture's habit of tipping tour guides or restaurants, called it a "bribe to receive decent service"--basically calling to our attention the fact that while we say 'tip' to make it sound normal, others might think it makes no sense--it's extra payment in order to "help guarantee" something that the business had already guaranteed based on the stated price or expectation.

In other words we might say the people in Nigeria used a word similar to Tip in order to describe something we would look down on by using 'bribe' (expressing our opinion of its corrupt nature), someone could also take some of our tipping situations and use the word Bribe to express their opinion on its corrupt nature.

It's one reason Spanish fascinates (and also frustrates) me. I get to see how they think of things differently! In many cases their wording puts the focus on another object rather than themselves. While both cultures might say, roughly equally, "That makes me mad".......Yet, if I arrive late (in English) I would usually say "I Am Late". But they might say "Se me hizo tarde" or "Es tarde", both of which make it seem more like something else 'got me late' basically. Funny stuff. There are much better examples but I can't seem to think of them now.
 

Jon

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Bribes come before service, tips after. Timing matters!
 

Isaac

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Sure .... Except for kickbacks, and my local pizza place where the Tip is chosen at the same time you order your food. (Silly enough, I know!)
I think it's all about perception & rationalization.
 

Jon

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Galaxiom

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I don't know if anyone won but anyone who bothered to watch it wasted a part of their life they won't get back.
 

pbaldy

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I don't know if anyone won but anyone who bothered to watch it wasted a part of their life they won't get back.

I can't disagree. In my defense, my wife wanted to watch. :p
 

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