Has America Imploded? (2 Viewers)

[The_Doc_Man]

Frank, your first sentence in post #340 is probably correct. Your second sentence betrays your jaundiced viewpoint.

 

[Pat Hartman]

So burning down Minneapolis doesn't count????????????

Law enforcement is in damage control mode, trying to regain the public's trust.

Allowing cities to burn isn't going to gain anyone's trust. Allowing two murderers (the girls who killed the Uber driver) to serve less time than what the tourists who wandered into the Capitol building after the doors were opened are looking at (7 years) is a travesty. That is YOUR America Frank, NOT MINE. Those girls will get a plea deal that will let them out when they are 18 or earlier with no criminal record. How's that for such a callous murder? Good thing they used a car instead of a gun. Good thing they're black instead of white. If they were white, this would be a hate crime that would have the race baters screaming like banshees. This is what a banana republic looks like and as long as the Police willingly follow the directions to not enforce certain laws, they will never again have the public's trust. Granted, in this case, the police are not at fault. They are not the people who decided to not prosecute this crime.

The police were the last bastion of civilization in this country. That's why the Marxists had to take them out with BLM and Antifa. Statistics be damned. You can't be bothered to read the actual text of a law you are incensed about. You can't be bothered to read the statistics surrounding COVID and who gets sick and who gets well and who dies. You can't be bothered to read the statistics regarding crimes and how they relate to population distribution and race. You just inhale the lying sound bites as if they were the Gospel truth and think of yourself as virtuous. You are so good. So right. So pure because you feel. You are virtuous because you are on the "right" side of every issue. Ignorance is bliss. Don't bother to fact check. Why would Biden stand up on national tv and tell such a bald faced lie? Because he can. Just ignore the 4 Pinocchio's that the WAPO gave him TWICE in a week regarding this particular lie (the voting bill in Georgia). He told it once and then doubled down and told it again.

 

[FrankRuperto]

Reality is that it keeps getting worse as each day goes by for republicans and trump. Stay tuned to your Fox news, e.g. John Boehner accuses trump of inciting the Jan. 6 insurrection, police officers are starting to cooperate in condemning other officers who abuse their powers and for corruption. Gaetz, Trump and other republican legislators soon to be indicted, huge boycott on jim crow states, and the list goes on and on. Stay Tuned.

 

[AccessBlaster]

Looks like liberal fearmongering has taken its desired effect.

 

[AccessBlaster]

The United States has gone full bore Idiocracy.

 

[FrankRuperto]

This is better than prime time. Watching how trump, mc-connell, and the republican's house of cards crumbles ::

 

[Isaac]

I actually feel pretty content, I think the Democrat "everything is racist" is a house of cards that's gotten about as big as it ever will get. Americans are, despite occasional evidence that suggests otherwise, not stupid. I think this house of cards lasts another few months and 2022 the pendelum comes swinging back around as usual.

 

[Pat Hartman]

John Boehner accuses trump of inciting the Jan. 6 insurrection,

Was he offering actual evidence or just an opinion? You really need a copy of the Constitution. This isn't France. Here in the United States of America, we are presumed to be innocent unless proven guilty.. Just because you say someone is guilty of something, doesn't make it so no matter how much you want it to be true. Show me the smoking gun with the fingerprints on it. Unfortunately, public figures in this country have little protection from the defamation laws which is why so many people have no compunction against standing up and telling lies about people they disagree with politically. Governor DeSantis has a pretty good case against 60 Minutes and it looks like he will pursue it. The lies need to stop.

FYI, you might want to examine the definition of insurrection. I'll help you out since you have trouble with actual research.

n.
The act of rising against civil authority or governmental restraint; specifically, the armed resistance of a number of persons to the power of the state; incipient or limited rebellion.

Now the trick question - how many of the tourists wandering through the Capitol taking selfies were armed?

 

[moke123]

Was he offering actual evidence or just an opinion? You really need a copy of the Constitution. This isn't France. Here in the United States of America, we are presumed to be innocent unless proven guilty.. Just because you say someone is guilty of something, doesn't make it so no matter how much you want it to be true.

Do you not believe in jury trials? Doesn't a juror just vote based on their opinion of the evidence presented?

Now the trick question - how many of the tourists wandering through the Capitol taking selfies were armed?

Isn't that just your opinion that they were tourists? Whats your definition of armed? I live in a tourist town and I haven't once seen a tourist in a flak jacket even though we always ask "If it's tourist season, why can't we shoot 'em?"

 

[Jon]

Do you not believe in jury trials?

In South Africa, they do not believe in jury trial and so do not have them. The judge decides.

Doesn't a juror just vote based on their opinion of the evidence presented?

All opinions have bias. I presume that is the reason for having a diverse jury, so you try to average out the biases. In the future, I imagine they might replace a jury with an AI bot.

 

[moke123]

In South Africa, they do not believe in jury trial and so do not have them. The judge decides.

In the US they're called bench trials. When a judge writes an "Opinion" he often deliniates his "Findings of Fact"
Are his findings a fact or an opinion?

 

[Jon]

Are bench trials used for minor crimes over there?

I would guess that his findings are his "judgement", or subjective opinion on determining what facts should be relevant to help decide the case.

 

[FrankRuperto]

I actually feel pretty content, I think the Democrat "everything is racist" is a house of cards that's gotten about as big as it ever will get. Americans are, despite occasional evidence that suggests otherwise, not stupid. I think this house of cards lasts another few months and 2022 the pendelum comes swinging back around as usual.

The shit storm is just begining for trump and republicans. Let's check back in a couple of months to see if your "pendulum swings back". After all the crazy stuff that happened while trump was president, we Democrats are not going to entertain any further debating with republicans. You have lost all credibility and are branded anarchist traitors. We are just going to do what needs to be done regardless of what you think, and there's nothing you can do to stop us.

 

[moke123]

Are bench trials used for minor crimes over there?

No, you can waive a jury trial for pretty much anything. It's more of a strategy call.

 

[Jon]

I've never been a fan of the plea bargaining system in the US. Then again, I have only seen the negative sides. I'm sure there are positive sides to it, else they wouldn't use it. But you can get people pleading guilty to things they did not do to avoid risk of a longer sentence. That just seems wrong!

 

[Jon]

Counter argument: Is it not better to have that choice than no choice at all, as happens in most countries?

 

[Isaac]

In the US they're called bench trials. When a judge writes an "Opinion" he often deliniates his "Findings of Fact"
Are his findings a fact or an opinion?

I would say that he is referencing what his personal conclusion (opinion) is, as to what facts actually occurred. His findings are an opinion, regarding facts.

 

[Pat Hartman]

Isn't that just your opinion that they were tourists? Whats your definition of armed? I live in a tourist town and I haven't once seen a tourist in a flak jacket even though we always ask "If it's tourist season, why can't we shoot 'em?"

There were a small number of people who actually damaged property and stole things. They were part of the crowd that planned the break-in. But most of the videos beyond the initial group entry show people looking at the art and taking selfies as they sat in Pelosi's seat. You can certainly charge them with trespassing but 7 years seems a little excessive don't you think especially given that the two girls who killed the Uber driver will get off with less than 4 years and come out with no criminal record. Is that "equal" justice? If those two girls had been white, we'd be having a whole different discussion because killing an Arab man would be considered a hate crime but black people can never commit hate crimes so the murderers get to go to juvie for a few years until they "repent". Good thing the girls used a car as their murder weapon rather than a gun. If they'd used a gun we'd be having that boring discussion again. Only people like Hunter Biden can get away with committing felonies regarding fire arms and not worry about being prosecuted. He's protected by the FBI and DOJ. Now, those are two department I could get behind defunding.

The left insists on calling the Jan 6th break-in an armed insurrection. Obviously, they need a new dictionary but it sounds terrible so the press jumped on it. Unless you're pretty stupid I would think you would bring guns to a real insurrection and plan on occupying the building.

I've never been a fan of the plea bargaining system in the US.

I am also not a fan. The prosecution does it because proving guilt can be difficult and trials are very expensive so they generally plea down the charges so that they can get "something" for little effort. Juries are notoriously unpredictable. I was amazed when OJ was found not guilty but then I wasn't in the courtroom and I didn't follow the trial closely. There is always a lot of pressure to close cases. Innocent people don't usually take plea deals but if you believe the TV crime shows, poor people are often coerced in to taking a plea by their incompetent public defenders.

The one time I sat on a jury at a criminal trial, I would have convicted the prosecutor and the victim and the defendant's attorney before I convicted the accused but they didn't give me that option. The accused was not guilty of the crime he was being tried for. He was guilty as sin of lots of other crimes, just not this one and we found out after the fact the details. The judge told us what was going on before he released us and the whole thing was a drug deal gone bad with $30 in play. So, 12 people sat for 3 days listening to testimony and the state prosecuted and the state defended this non-crime because the "victim" wouldn't recant because he was afraid he would be charged with a crime.

The case of the two young girls who murdered an Uber driver is an example that at the moment seems will end in a plea deal. I'm not sure why the prosecution doesn't want to prosecute the girls, probably because they're black and somehow the girls will become the victims instead of the man they killed, no matter how callous the crime.

 

[Isaac]

I strongly agree with Pat's general thrust of there being a poor balance between punishments. You have a person at the capitol who, in the prosecution's own words, the worst they can say is he entered through an open door, meandered through a hallway, and exited after a few minutes. Trespassing, no doubt. He is facing 7 years. Meanwhile the prosecutor is giddily referring to things like "shock and awe" (between 1/6 and 1/20) for purposes of deterrence by way of extra harsh prosecution.

Juxtapose that with covid releases and many - just numerous, numerous instances where judges are letting out people accused of very serious crimes (murder, r@pe, etc), some of them go out and commit more crimes in the meanwhile.

Juxtapose all that with the common knowledge that, while what happened on Jan 6th was 'wrong' in the eyes of every law abiding person, it is something that the Democrats found EXTRA offensive. So they selectively prosecute those at the capitol, and selectively let other criminals (in other demographics) go free.

Juxtapose that with people last summer who tried to blow up law enforcement vehicles, and got bailed out as a gift by liberal organizations and Democrats.

We all know that that situation is wrong...and messed up. I know that you know it is!

 

[Pat Hartman]

and got bailed out as a gift by liberal organizations and Democrats.

Not just liberal organizations but by the VICE PRESIDENT who will, within the year end up as President mini ha-ha. Joe already calls her President Harris. Maybe he knows something the rest of us don't know yet.