The_Doc_Man is off the air

[oumahexi]

I'm home, the house is intact, and the ISP is back on-line.

Welcome home Doc_Man, glad you are all ok

Too old: I'm now 60, which means I'll be retiring in a few years. Nobody would want to hire me for anything but a temporary - and therefore generally lower paying - job.

Over 40 you're considered "old" in this profession...

Family: As long as the kids don't disperse, the wife wants to stay in the area. As long as my mother-in-law is still alive and kicking, wifey wants to stay where she can help.

Mother-in-law would be heartbroken if her daughter deserted her at this stage in life. I agree with your wife.

Glad the levy's didn't break this time round.

 

[Rabbie]

Too old: I'm now 60, which means I'll be retiring in a few years. Nobody would want to hire me for anything but a temporary - and therefore generally lower paying - job.

60! That's young - at least from where I am standing

 

[Rich]

jee, do I feel young

 

[statsman]

Doc - you seem to think that wherever you go in the USA there will be a natural disaster.

Why is it that there are many Americans who post here yet it is only New Orleans based posters that have a problem in this area. I haven't heard Cindy or anyone else suffering. You could move there and save masses on insurance and peace of mind and give stability to your immediate family. Surely safety of your own family is paramount, what brothers sisters and other relatives do is not your problem, why stay where they are?

Surely there are plenty of jobs available in the land of milk and honey.

Col

When you get right down to it, people have a terrible habit of building cities,towns and villages in just about the worst possible places.

New Orleans is actually below sea level near a body of water that attracts huricanes.
Many of the great plains states are breeding grounds for tornadoes.
Despite repeated warnings, people insist on building homes in flood planes because it's so beautiful. When they wash away, they blame the government for not controlling the river (may as well sue God).

Why do people continue to live there? Because it's home. Thats where their houses are, thats where their friends and families are.

 

[Brianwarnock]

jee, do I feel young

How do we know when you have such a hangup about your age , it suggests that you are more aware than most of the passing years.

Brian

 

[Brianwarnock]

Glad your home Doc and everything is relatively ok.

Brian

 

[Rich]

How do we know when you have such a hangup about your age ,
Brian

I don't have a hang up about it Brian, that's why it's in the profile

 

[Brianwarnock]

I don't have a hang up about it Brian, that's why it's in the profile

There is no answer, that I can print, to that.

brian

 

[Rich]

There is no answer, that I can print, to that.

brian

Go for it Bri, we're all consenting adults, or most of us

 

[Rabbie]

I don't have a hang up about it Brian, that's why it's in the profile

But it seems curiously resistant to changing each year

 

[Rich]

But it seems curiously resistant to changing each year

Must be the software

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Hmmm, looks like I hijacked my own thread into a commentary on age-ism. Yet I've seen it before with other employers. Past a certain age, employers are reluctant to hire someone who is otherwise totally qualified. I once heard some excuses about "learning curve" being too long for old folks. Buch of dishwater logic to me - i.e. thin and murky.

However we got to this topic, I think it is a cryin' shame that employers don't look to - how shall I say this? More experienced people. Instead, they prove that it is time to pull out a new edition of "The Mythical Man-Month." Or look at some of the work done on problems and work models. Daniel Boehm wrote a study that shows clearly - tossing money or warm bodies at a problem just clutters the place. Tossing experienced bodies at a problem solves it faster every time. And us old codgers have experience.

Of course, Ambrose Bierce had a comment on experience, too. "Experience is that which allows you to recognize your mistakes when you make them again."

 

[Brianwarnock]

I realised the thread had changed direction , felt a bit guilty and quit.
But If we are going to talk about employers and ageism I have a great story.

A friend of mine who like me was retired at 50 as the company restructured, got a job as an IMS Systems Programmer (IBMers will know what i mean) with bank B, when he reached 60 Bank B retired him as was their policy, he didn't want to retire so joined an agency but the guy at the agency wasn't hopeful because
" The only company wanting IMS Systems Programmers in the area is Bank B, they wont take on people over 60, but the only IMS Systems programmers we have are over 60"

Its a mad mad world.

Brian

 

[statsman]

I realised the thread had changed direction , felt a bit guilty and quit.
But If we are going to talk about employers and ageism I have a great story.

A friend of mine who like me was retired at 50 as the company restructured, got a job as an IMS Systems Programmer (IBMers will know what i mean) with bank B, when he reached 60 Bank B retired him as was their policy, he didn't want to retire so joined an agency but the guy at the agency wasn't hopeful because
" The only company wanting IMS Systems Programmers in the area is Bank B, they wont take on people over 60, but the only IMS Systems programmers we have are over 60"

Its a mad mad world.

Brian

Reference - Catch 22 by Joseph Heller

 

[Banana]

FWIW, from what I understand; the main reason why several companies are reluctant to hire old people is twofold:

1) Medical expenses: Some insurances charge higher premiums for older employees and not in every cases the companies can pass along the increased costs, so they're stuck paying more of their share for the premiums compared to a younger employee.

2) Retention: This is more true in technical industries; several companies would rather that their hires be around for 10, 20, even 30 years, and hiring a young person has a better chance of seeing him through for that long.

At least, that's what my brother-in-law whom is a programmer for a microchip company tells me.

 

[Brianwarnock]

The States may be different from the UK
In the UK
1 doesn't apply

2 It always seemed to be the young guys who were keen to move, I would think that you would have a 50+ for the duration.

Brian

 

[georgedwilkinson]

As a direct victim of this, I think it is more about beauty and non-business reasons. I was interim VP of IT for a company in Houston, with the potential to become permanent. Most of the execs (myself included) lived in other parts of the country and would only fly in once a week or less frequently. When they came into town, it was important that they "socialize" every night, all night, including lots of food, booze, and (dare I say it), women. It was clear to me early on I would not be able to keep up and didn't see any point in trying.

I wasn't "quite what they wanted" but they loved me (because I got things done and made friends in the organization quickly) and decided to hire a permanent VP for whom I would work. Of course, the new guy was young and beautiful and was willing to go out partying all night when the (other) execs were in town.

I'm sure you can guess the rest of the story. My severance agreement contract had a clause that said I couldn't pursue any action because of age discrimination. The fact that it was even there was further evidence to me of the real reason for the severance. Since they had moved me to Houston with insufficient funding for the move, there was no way I was gonna NOT accept the severance.

Thing is, the new guy came in and spent orders of magnitude more money than I had (my first objective had been to keep spending level), and didn't accomplish any more than I had accomplished, even with all the extra spending. After he fired me, he later left the company under unfavorable conditions (related to spending).

Now I find it VERY difficult to get a job. I've actually re-written my resume to remove experience. I do fine with the modified resume up until the face to face interview after which I suddenly stop receiving any communications at all and my phone calls are ignored. I know it's about my age (I'm not particularly ugly and have excellent hygeine). I don't fumble around for words and am moderately articulate, being comfortable in front of people. They just don't want an old dude when they can have a young, beautiful person.

 

[Rich]

So there is something to be said for being self employed after all..........

 

[Banana]

The States may be different from the UK
In the UK
1 doesn't apply

Yes, I should have clarified that this is a States thing.

2 It always seemed to be the young guys who were keen to move, I would think that you would have a 50+ for the duration.

Well, from what he tells me, the issues is more about trade secrets. At least for his field, he gets to know a lot about inner working of a microchip which could be damaging if he went to another company. Yes, there are NDAs and agreements but this is not always surefire so it works better for them if they keep the employee at any cost and since they're going to keep at any cost, it's cheaper to keep on a young man who has lower expectations than a 50+ man.

Of course, this is strictly anecdotal evidence and for all I know, means nothing for other fields.

 

[Rabbie]

So there is something to be said for being self employed after all..........

At least then you tell the boss exactly what you think