Socialism Alert!

[ASherbuck]

Another common misunderstanding concerning taxes. True if corporations pay the taxes it leads to higher prices. What is never mentioned in the tax debate is that the consumer will have MORE money to pay for stuff because they won't be paying the taxes.

There are other issues that the tax debate conveniently overlooks. One is that taxes are used in many cases for services that help facilitate business, such as community infrastructure. As such, the cost of any product produced must include both the internal and external costs of its production. Taxes, like advertising and paying salaries, are a cost of doing business.

Another fact that goes without reporting is that America's Businesses are also the largest recipients of welfare anywhere in the world. I think we should yank out all subsidies and welfare. Period. Citizen and Corporate welfare.

Perfect example being the bailout.

Lol someone got the "e" on the tater! Excellent!

 

[Rich]

Dumpster Diving = Redistribution of wealth under George Bush

But you forgot to mention that his redistribution of wealth favoured the banks, the arms industry, the oil industry, etc

 

[Steve R.]

Another fact that goes without reporting is that America's Businesses are also the largest recipients of welfare anywhere in the world. I think we should yank out all subsidies and welfare. Period. Citizen and Corporate welfare.

Fully agree. We should have a flat tax. Furthermore, we should do away with all "incentive" tax credits and tax deductions. If a business can not make enough money to pay its fair share of taxes, it is an uneconomic business and should go out-of-business.

 

[Alisa]

Fully agree. We should have a flat tax. Furthermore, we should do away with all "incentive" tax credits and tax deductions. If a business can not make enough money to pay its fair share of taxes, it is an uneconomic business and should go out-of-business.

And in your estimation, what percentage would the flat tax be?

 

[dkinley]

Since this is thread is about socialism and such, figured I would ask a question ...

Anyone ever hear of the Cloward-Piven Strategy?

Cloward and Piven focused on welfare, voting, housing and immigration “rights.” But leftist positions on any issue, whether championing “equal rights,” “abortion rights,” “education rights,” rights to health care, rights to housing, legal protections of antisocial or even criminal behavior, to the point of absurdity, are intentionally divisive.

They deliberately put our society at war with itself. The true purpose is not even to help those groups, but rather to duplicitously enlist them as part of an offensive to collapse our society from within.

They add new fiscal and regulatory burdens on government, and set new precedents that undermine the limited government concepts embedded in our Constitution, while conferring discriminatory special benefits on legally defined groups the rest of us are forced to pay for.

The theory is that our economic downfall was caused from within by a certain group so that the group could claim authority to do as they wish. In holding it up to the mirror for today's times - just alot of similiarities.

-dK

 

[Steve R.]

And in your estimation, what percentage would the flat tax be?

A Kinder, Gentler Flat Tax

"Under Steve Forbes' plan the flat rate would be 17%. All families would get generous personal exemptions, so that a family of four would not pay taxes until its income exceeded $46,000. To encourage growth, the Forbes plan exempts income that is saved and invested. Which means that the Forbes plan is really a consumption tax. It taxes people based on what they take out of the system, not on what they put in."

 

[ASherbuck]

I would like to attempt to Hijack with a Successionist Alert.

Count them stars !

 

[Rich]

Count them stars !

Are Iraq and Afghanistan amongst them?

 

[statsman]

There are 13 stripes on the American flag. Count the stripes.
Obviously some of stars were cut off in the photo.
There aren't enough problems in the US without inventing this rubbish.

Of course, a couple of states may have decided ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. The missing stars could represent New England who are joining Canada

 

[KenHigg]

I bet the stage hand that placed it there is a liberal and set her up

 

[Rich]

I bet the stage hand that placed it there is a liberal and set her up

Yeah, Palin must be blind, ideal candidate for the Republicans

 

[KenHigg]

There are 13 stripes on the American flag. Count the stripes.
Obviously some of stars were cut off in the photo.
There aren't enough problems in the US without inventing this rubbish.

Of course, a couple of states may have decided ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. The missing stars could represent New England who are joining Canada

How do you figure they were cut off in the photo? They just screwed up the flag up with 7 rows of 7 stars. There's supposed to be 5 rows of 6 and 4 rows of 5...

 

[Rabbie]

How do you figure they were cut off in the photo? They just screwed up the flag up with 7 rows of 7 stars. There's supposed to be 5 rows of 6 and 4 rows of 5...

It's actually an old flag dating from the short period of time(approx 7 Months) in 1959 after Alaska got full statehood and before Hawai did. Then there were 49 states and so 49 stars on the flag.

 

[Alisa]

A Kinder, Gentler Flat Tax

"Under Steve Forbes' plan the flat rate would be 17%. All families would get generous personal exemptions, so that a family of four would not pay taxes until its income exceeded $46,000. To encourage growth, the Forbes plan exempts income that is saved and invested. Which means that the Forbes plan is really a consumption tax. It taxes people based on what they take out of the system, not on what they put in."

Personally I could not afford to pay 17% tax rate ON TOP of the payroll taxes I already pay. I think that sounds incredibly regressive, and punitive to those earning a paycheck. The whole idea of exempting saved income is also regressive - the working poor MUST spend every dollar on living expenses, and the middle class MUST spend a much greater percentage of their income on living expenses than those in the upper classes. So to exempt the money that the upper classes are able to save as a result of their greater wealth is essentially a regressive system, and is completely unfair to lower earners. This is what I would do:
1. Completely eliminate payroll taxes.
2. Tax rate = 0% on anyone earning 100% of FPL or less (adjusted for family size).
3. Tax rate starts at 5% and increases with income. I am no economist, so I don't know what the top rate would have to be, or in what increments you would have to adjust it.
4. Get rid of all exemptions, deductions, incentives. Allow businesses to deduct actual business expenses from gross revenue, but thats it.
5. Reform the health care system so that it is possible for anyone working 40 hours a week to afford medical care.
6. Redistribute revenue from upper tax brackets to everyone EARNING less than FPL (not people who are unemployed, people who WORK for wages that do not add up to the FPL). This is like the EIC we already have.

 

[Alisa]

It's actually an old flag dating from the short period of time(approx 7 Months) in 1959 after Alaska got full statehood and before Hawai did. Then there were 49 states and so 49 stars on the flag.

So she is dreaming that Hawaii never became a state, therefore Obama never being able to run for president?

 

[KenHigg]

It's actually an old flag dating from the short period of time(approx 7 Months) in 1959 after Alaska got full statehood and before Hawai did. Then there were 49 states and so 49 stars on the flag.

Ah.... Nice research. The must have used it on purpose... Wonder why?

 

[Alc]

Ah.... Nice research. The must have used it on purpose... Wonder why?

Nothing these people do is ever an accident, is it?

Wonder what they'd have done if Hawaii had joined before Alaska? Paint out a star?

 

[Alisa]

I saw a bumber sticker yesterday for Sarah Palin that said VP 2008, president 2012. Can a republican on this forum explain the meaning of this sticker? Is McCain meant to die after one term? Or step down? Or is he supposed to lose this time so she can run next time against Obama? I'm confused.

 

[pbaldy]

Alisa, you're dropping Social Security and Medicare? Or just their funding? No unemployment, no welfare?

The "how" on number 5 is more or less the question of the century.

 

[Alisa]

Alisa, you're dropping Social Security and Medicare? Or just their funding? No unemployment, no welfare?

The "how" on number 5 is more or less the question of the century.

No, I was saying that social security and medicare taxes are regressive taxes, so if you were really going to make the tax system fair, you would not pay for those things with payroll taxes, you would pay for them with general taxes. What makes it even more regressive is the fact that money collected from my paycheck for social security and medicare gets used for other things.