The Covid cure has arrived! (1 Viewer)

[AccessBlaster]

If you can't question the science without being labeled a conspiracy theorist, it's a problem. If governments around the world make it mandatory If you want to work or travel but give immunity to the manufacturer against lawsuits, it's a problem. If the internet bans debate about legitimate concerns, it's a problem.

 

[Steve R.]

If the internet bans debate about legitimate concerns, it's a problem.

I missed that one from my expose. Thanks.

 

[Pat Hartman]

But I also know that it used to be that to get kids into school here in the USA, you needed them to have their shots.

OK, here's a quiz. What is the difference between the COVID vaccines and all the childhood disease vaccines?
1. When the other vaccines were released, the VULNERABLE took them. NOT everyone. This one is being forced on the non-vulnerable as a matter of virtue signaling. Children especially are not in danger. The actual science is -- DO NOT TAKE DRUGS YOU DO NOT ABSOLUTELY NEED TO TAKE.
2. The other vaccines were actually tested for years with double blind studies to ensure that they were as safe as possible. This vaccine was approved for experimental use ONLY provided there were NO viable therapeutics but there are viable therapeutics and always have been. It is just that politics prevent doctors from trying them. How many people have died because their PCP couldn't at least try one of the off-label drugs suggested as a theraputic? Lots is my guess. Who pays for that insanity? The permanent approval by the FDA was ordered by the president and not because of years of double blind studies. There were no new studies. The "science" just changed.
3. The other vaccines actually prevent the disease. The COVID vaccine minimizes the danger but doesn't prevent you from catching or worse - spreading the disease.
4. The "science" changed on a dime depending on what the ruling class wanted.

How about all the people who can't get a hospital bed because the hospital is overwhelmed with the unvaccinated.

Fact check please. Name a single city where this is an actual problem.

Are poisonous darts contageous?

Either the vaccine works or it doesn't. Whether others are vaccinated or not has no impact on you. In fact the unvaccinated should be afraid of you according to some experts

I'll go you one better. Dentists who deal with blood all the time are not allowed to ask a patient's HIV status nor are they allowed to double-glove or take other preventive measures when the HIV status is known. People with HIV who have unprotected sex with the unknowing partners and transmit the disease to them are not guilty of any crime in California although they still are in other states.

I know you're afraid but COVID is a political issue and much less of a danger to most people than the people in power would have you believe. I took the vaccine because I believe COVID is more a danger to me personally than the emergency use only vaccine. But forcing everyone else to get vaccinated doesn't make me any safer since the vaccinated can catch and spread COVID just as well. It is simply NOT POSSIBLE to vaccinate every single person in the world and completely ignoring natural immunity is downright idiotic. It's like the gun issue. If I could twang my magic twanger and remove every single gun from the face of the earth along with the knowledge of how to make new ones, I would do it in a heartbeat. If I wanted to save the world from deaths by bicycle, that one is easy. Just ban bicycles. In the US about 750 people die each year from bicycle accidents. That is more than the number of children how died from COVID. Why are people not insisting on banning bicycles?

Conversely, each death due to COVID-19 is being recorded.

Except that the death doesn't have to be related to COVID at all. Any death where the deceased tested positive for COVID or even had COVID symptoms is counted as a COVID death even if the person was terminal with some other disease. We even have cases of death by car accident being attributed to COVID. The COVID deaths are way over counted (all the better to terrify the public). Some states have done some adjusting but the CDC advice in early 2020 was count everything as COVID if could even remotely be COVID because the tests were not reliable.

What is interesting is that flu rates have dropped significantly.

Because they are being counted as COVID deaths.

 

[Pat Hartman]

If you can't question the science without being labeled a conspiracy theorist, it's a problem. If governments around the world make it mandatory If you want to work or travel but give immunity to the manufacturer against lawsuits, it's a problem. If the internet bans debate about legitimate concerns, it's a problem.

We also have the problem here in the US of failing to mandate vaccination for people crossing the border illegally. We don't ask. We don't test. We just put them on planes WITHOUT PHOTO ID because they're special and send them any where they want to go. Want a free trip? Just wlk across the southern border and name your destination. Children crossing the border don't produce their vaccine records. We are reintroducing childhood illnesses long eradicated in the US due to our border policies.

The actual hysteria around COVID goes back to a very early computer model prediction from a university in the UK that proved very quickly to be completely inaccurate. It was projecting death rates in the 10% range. We are actually experiencing death rates in the .018 range which is approximately a bad flu season.

Has anybody "fact checked" that model?

 

[Isaac]

maybe you'll get it and die, who knows or cares. Not me for sure

Thank you for confirming our suspicions regarding the mendacity of your original words, which suggested that you might be selfless or care for others.

 

[AccessBlaster]

Next!

Bill Gates warns of bioterrorist smallpox pandemic​

 

[Isaac]

Just the fact that lunatics are now trying to vaccinate CHILDREN ought to inform your own assessment of how good/bad their judgment is...

Pfizer Claims Vaccine Will Reduce Average Daily Child COVID Deaths From Almost Zero To Almost Zero

NEW YORK, NY—In a moment celebrated by all hard-working lobbyists, Pfizer announced that the COVID-19 vaccine will reduce average daily child COVID deaths from almost zero all the way down to almost zero.

babylonbee.com

 

[moke123]

Fact check please. Name a single city where this is an actual problem.

Unvaccinated patients who caught COVID-19 fill hospital beds we need for others: Doctor

When intensive care units are full, the health care system backs up and there are delays in care for patients with conditions other than COVID-19.

www.usatoday.com

These 6 States Have Almost No ICU Beds Left As Covid Hospitalizations Soar

With Covid-19 infections climbing nationwide, some communities are facing a hospital capacity crunch.

www.forbes.com

Alabama Hospitals Have Run Out Of ICU Beds As COVID-19 Cases Surge

There are 29 more patients than there are open ICU beds as of Wednesday. The recent run, reminiscent of early in the pandemic, is occurring largely in states with the lowest vaccination rates.

www.npr.org

 

[Jon]

You thought at first that the vaccine would make people not be able to spread the virus. As you may recall when we were arguing about just how valuable your three months of data on the vaccine safety was. We find out now, that's simply not true. Getting the vaccine does not stop you from spreading covid. Information about the vaccine has generally been steadily changing, giving it progressively less value, as predicted that it might.

@Isaac, you made that up. I never said that. Refer to my previous post: https://www.access-programmers.co.u...-cure-has-arrived.314703/page-28#post-1790640

See this part of that post:

Double-vax reduces risk. It is not a binary safe/not safe thing. Hearing that the vaccinated caught Covid and died, and then weaponising that is to set up a straw-man argument that vaccines don't work.

My arguments are all about odds, not binary black and white thinking, which is how you are trying to portray things.

Not convinced? I also said in an even earlier post the following:

My understanding is that the vaccines have two effects:

a) Reduce your odds of catching it.

b) Reduce your odds of dying from it.

I don't think it is any more complicated than that.

Source: https://www.access-programmers.co.u...-cure-has-arrived.314703/page-22#post-1781026

I said "reduce the odds", not stop. If you reduce your odds of catching it, your odds of spreading it are also reduced.

All in all I think the most powerful argument here is Steve's. There are dozens and dozens and dozens of reasons why people end up in the hospital. 95% of them are their own fault. So why is it only covid that would get this philosophical treatment?

You can only catch Covid from someone else and it has killed millions worldwide. It's not rocket science.

The short answer is, there really is no reason. I think you've just been programmed by the news because the news chooses which medical problems to focus on and right now they are focusing on covid.

Covid has had a catastrophic impact on the number of people dying from infectious diseases, and that is after taking many precautionary measures. If you ignored the government advice, the situation would be even worse because complacency increases the rate of spread. The news depends on which channel you watch.

if you want to be honest with yourself, begin directing an equal amount of ire at everyone who is fat or has deliberately exposed themselves to carcinogens or other diseases or generally has not taken care of their life, including reckless drivers (meaning about 3/4 of you), who end up in the hospital from accidents.

A fat person is not contagious. We covered this already.

Reckless driving has nothing to do with Covid. If you want to bring it into the debate, how many people die per year from reckless driving verses the number from Covid? I believe in the US, it is around 40K per year. Covid? 345K. Nearly 10 times the number and that is after the preventative measures. Just as we have speed limits on the road, we also have vaccines to reduce Covid reckless driving.

 

[Jon]

Either the vaccine works or it doesn't.

Binary thinking. Vaccines are on a continuum of effectiveness. It is all about odds.

Fact check please. Name a single city where this is an actual problem.

It is more about how the spare capacity in hospitals is being affected. Look what happened in Italy where resources were stretched and they didn't have enough ventilators. Exponential diseases can quickly spiral out of control and the risk of using up all available capacity is high.

Whether others are vaccinated or not has no impact on you.

Vaccines alter someones ability to spread the virus if you catch Covid. It does impact me. Vaccines reduce someones ability to catch the virus (and thereafter spread it). It does impact me.

In fact the unvaccinated should be afraid of you according to some experts

They have nothing to fear. I'm keeping myself to myself!

 

[Steve R.]

Also in the news is that there is a body of scientists and knowledgeable lay people who are challenging the "official" mantra of the political establishment and Dr. Fauci. This is a followup post to my Lets Take a Step Back post and @AccessBlaster's post noting that legitimate debate on this issue is being suppressed. Dr. Scott Atlas just recently weighed into this topic.

Dr. Scott Atlas: Government bureaucrats were threatened by other input | Fox News Video

Former Trump COVID adviser reacts to Democrats’ pandemic policies as a new variant emerges on ‘The Next Revolution.’

video.foxnews.com

COVID omicron variant – how worried should you be?

The same questions are on everyone’s mind right now. How afraid should I be about the new COVID-19 variant? Will I be locked down again? Will I catch the virus despite being vaccinated?

www.foxnews.com

Politicians and the media don’t help us. Our leaders want to be perceived as acting ahead of the risk, which is why the travel advisories are being put in place even though this variant has already spread into Europe and likely on into the United States, so travel restrictions now will do little.

Media hyperbole inflames our fears and political posturing is transparently self-serving and fails to calm us. Only science can reassure, providing context and diagnostic, preventive and treatment tools against the new variant. Our leaders must provide constant timely support for these efforts, not pound the political drum to control us.

 

[Pat Hartman]

Binary thinking. Vaccines are on a continuum of effectiveness. It is all about odds.

So you don't believe Biden?

Vaccines alter someones ability to spread the virus if you catch Covid

So you don't think that the vaccinated can catch and spread COVID?

Is ICU shortage man made?

Covid ICU Bed Shortage, Is It A Man Made Crisis? - Redoubt News

Covid ICU Fewer staff, fewer COVID beds. Hmm. Is this a man-made crises? Why is insufficient information being provided?

redoubtnews.com

You have to read the very last sentence in the article to get to the issue:

Veteran dies of treatable illness as COVID fills hospital beds, leaving doctors "playing musical chairs"

The surge in new COVID cases is putting an enormous strain on hospitals, jeopardizing patients who cannot get the medical attention they need because of a lack of space.

www.cbsnews.com

Maybe firing people who are not vaccinated is a poor idea.

Why are the only numbers we see the count of "cases"? Who cares how many "cases" there are? How many people -actual number -- in ICU's? How many are dying? Were the people in the ICU or who died treated with therapeutics in the EARLY stages of the disease?

 

[Pat Hartman]

On Fox, after they ran Biden's anouncement of the travel ban, they ran Biden's speech from January 2020 where he was calling Trump a racist for instituting a travel ban You can't make this stuff up

And we had to skip a letter of the Greek alphabet because it might offend China

 

[Pat Hartman]

Biden is now telling us that we can't let up until the "world" is vaccinated. I guess we can just turn out the lights because there will always be someone somewhere who is not vaccinated.

 

[AccessBlaster]

It has been reported Australia has the Omicron variant. How's that possible? Australia has strict testing procedures you can not travel to Australia without being fully vaccinated. So it has to be a fully vaccinated traveler carrying the bug, not the unvaccinated.

If we use Israel as the control and their over 78% vaccination rate one would have to assume it's not the unvaccinated filling their ICUs. It has to be the vaccinated spreading amongst themselves. It kinda blows the myth about the unvaccinated.

I am not making the case for not getting vaccinated, just asking why the scapegoating.

 

[Steve R.]

Biden just finished his lying presentation to the US public. This is political manipulation of a "crises" to control the public.
Not mentioned:

• Biden has imposed a travel ban, but not on illegal immigration into the US. For some magical reason are they somehow immune to Covid and its spread?
• Where are the reporters asking tough adversarial questions? When Trump imposed travel restrictions, the press was all over him for asserting that Trump's actions were racist and xenophobic.
• Biden never mentioned the role of therapeutics. The only treatment option presented by Biden was the vaccine and booster.

 

[Isaac]

@Isaac, you made that up. I never said that. Refer to my previous post: https://www.access-programmers.co.u...-cure-has-arrived.314703/page-28#post-1790640

See this part of that post:



My arguments are all about odds, not binary black and white thinking, which is how you are trying to portray things.

Not convinced? I also said in an even earlier post the following:



Source: https://www.access-programmers.co.u...-cure-has-arrived.314703/page-22#post-1781026

I said "reduce the odds", not stop. If you reduce your odds of catching it, your odds of spreading it are also reduced.


You can only catch Covid from someone else and it has killed millions worldwide. It's not rocket science.


Covid has had a catastrophic impact on the number of people dying from infectious diseases, and that is after taking many precautionary measures. If you ignored the government advice, the situation would be even worse because complacency increases the rate of spread. The news depends on which channel you watch.


A fat person is not contagious. We covered this already.

Reckless driving has nothing to do with Covid. If you want to bring it into the debate, how many people die per year from reckless driving verses the number from Covid? I believe in the US, it is around 40K per year. Covid? 345K. Nearly 10 times the number and that is after the preventative measures. Just as we have speed limits on the road, we also have vaccines to reduce Covid reckless driving.

I think you're a victim of binary thinking now.

Sure, fat people are not contagious. But so what? Their own personal choices cause them to end up taking a hospital bed that someone else needs. Exactly the same way but with less contagiousness and exponentiation, that a person who didn't take a vaccine might result in getting sick with covid and taking up a hospital bed that someone else needs.

I'm afraid the analogies still hold. You wish to reject the analogy based only on the difference between contagiousness. But the only thing that affects is how drastic the result is and how many other people are affected. It doesn't change the fact that personal choices are leading people to unnecessarily take up hospital beds exactly the same as the un vaccinated are.

As do the arguments about covid misinformation and progressively less value from the vaccine as we get more information and time goes on.

You wish to follow all government advice, but if everyone had followed the same advice as, for example, the state of New York did, our economy and people's lives and livelihoods would be many times more ruined than they got last year. Some states are doing things differently, such as Texas and Florida.

You see it as a binary choice. Take the government advice or don't take the government's advice. Unfortunately, the reality is much more nuanced.

 

[Isaac]

It has been reported Australia has the Omicron variant. How's that possible? Australia has strict testing procedures you can not travel to Australia without being fully vaccinated. So it has to be a fully vaccinated traveler carrying the bug, not the unvaccinated.

If we use Israel as the control and their over 78% vaccination rate one would have to assume it's not the unvaccinated filling their ICUs. It has to be the vaccinated spreading amongst themselves. It kinda blows the myth about the unvaccinated.

I am not making the case for not getting vaccinated, just asking why the scapegoating.

Because too many people have over simplified these issues rather than allowing for all aspects that need to be considered as I've said before.... Aspects that have things to do with more than just whether you will or won't catch covid, which is what the government has requested that we reduce all of our decisions in life down to.

I think it comes down to something that I've said before quite succinctly believe it or not

Science can sometimes tell us what it is.
It can never tell us what ought.

 

[Jon]

So you don't believe Biden?

I've no idea what Biden is saying. If he agrees with me or disagrees with me, that is irrelevant to how I make my decisions. But on average, I disagree with nearly everything he says!

So you don't think that the vaccinated can catch and spread COVID?

I've covered this a lot, and it appears we are back to binary thinking again. You can catch and spread Covid if you are double vaccinated, but your odds of catching and of spreading it are reduced. Why talk in binary absolutes of "it works or doesn't work" when we all know it operates along a continuum of effectiveness? The "it works 100%" verses "it doesn't work" argument is irrelevant. You don't need something working 100% effectively for it to have a significant impact. Drugs in medicine are mostly not guaranteed to work, nor are treatments. Instead, they have probabilities associated with them. Chemo may not save you, but it has a percentage chance of saving your life estimated by historical data.

Why are the only numbers we see the count of "cases"? Who cares how many "cases" there are? How many people -actual number -- in ICU's? How many are dying? Were the people in the ICU or who died treated with therapeutics in the EARLY stages of the disease?

No data, poor future planning. Having the number of cases helps you calculate the rate of spread, the percentage dying and so on. It also helps assess risk. It also helps data nerds like me spread the fear.

 

[Jon]

On Fox, after they ran Biden's anouncement of the travel ban, they ran Biden's speech from January 2020 where he was calling Trump a racist for instituting a travel ban You can't make this stuff up

And we had to skip a letter of the Greek alphabet because it might offend China

Biden is an utter hypocrite. I remember him banging on about Trump being a xenophobic racist because of his travel bans. Same for all the left wing media who ran with this narrative 24/7. When Biden does it, its the smart thing to do. You can't believe a word they say nowadays.