The Covid cure has arrived! (2 Viewers)

[AccessBlaster]

I love to use Google, but the owners are not in political alignment to me.

Google and Yahoo are also owned by Vanguard and BlackRock

 

[AccessBlaster]

Basically, everything is owned by 2 companies.

What's really interesting is they also invest in each other, so in reality, it's one large monolith.

 

[Jon]

I have some money in a Vanguard index tracking fund called VTI. All they do is invest in thousands of different US companies so you mimic the returns of the overall stock market. It is a way to diversify and reduce risk.

These are not managed funds, so you have no one trying to optimise the investment return.

They might have managed funds too, not 100% sure. If they don't, I would assume they have no interest in what the various companies do. The goal is to track the index.

The concept is that you have very low fees compared to your typical mutual fund, where the fund managers charge a fee, which could be 1.5%. It is hard to beat the average of the market, so history has shown that on average, after fees you are better off in an index fund than a typical mutual fund. Consequently, these funds have grown enormously in recent times.

 

[AccessBlaster]

The truth is it's dam near impossible not to do business with Vanguard or BlackRock they own everything.

Okay, tin foil hat is off back to regular programming.....

 

[Jon]

Vanguard have most of my investment money. Is BlackRock a US company of a similar nature?

 

[AccessBlaster]

I had a better explanation but I lost the link but this one explains some of what your asking.

 

[Jon]

I imagine large companies have lots of power, but then again power is not necessarily negative. There is an argument that one persons poor use of power, is anothers good use of power. It all depends on if you are one of the beneficiaries or not.

 

[Isaac]

And what about abortions?

What about them? That involves another person's body. "your fist's rights end where my nose begins"

Have I missed something? What has less value now regarding the vaccines?

Start with waning efficacy for a big one. Booster needs every 6 mo. wasn't a widely known thing at the beginning. Granted, you can probably find someone who (wisely) predicted it, but it wasn't anywhere near the 'fact' (ha) that it has become now.

Where have I stated I wish to follow all government advice?

You sure mention it a lot!

Concession accepted on the analogy issue. There are a dozen things we could have been blaming hospital patients for for thousands of years now. Going from nothing to everything on covid alone as the first one seems questionable, but I accept your whole argument rests on the matter of degree.

 

[Jon]

Science already knows vaccines wane. How long the vaccine effectiveness lasts was unknown when they first came out. That is altogether different than vaccines being less effect the more we know about them. There is a big fog before more data comes in. As you know, they just try to guesstimate a lot of things based on previous medical knowledge and an understanding of biology. When we get quantum computers going and strong AI, perhaps we can do some more accurate calculations of all this.

I am due my booster, but with this new Omicron variant coming out, I'm not sure if I should wait or not. But since some early reports from South Africa say they had no hospitalisations, maybe Covid is petering out into something milder. The same thing happened to the Spanish Flu in I believe its second year. Then we can all hold hands again!

I did mention the government advice for a specific reason. You said if you follow the news...blah blah. So, I wanted to make the distinction between the news, and government advice. Why? Because in the US, perspectives on Covid seem to be divided down party lines. If you are Republican, it's an impingement on your freedom. If you are Democrat, it is about safety first. So, following news advice will then depend on which channel you tune in to. I watch Fox News, but completely disregard their commentary regarding how to conduct your own Covid safety protocol.

So, I follow what I believe after my own research. It happens that most of it coincides with government advice, but it didn't initially. I am a highly independent thinker that can lead me into arguing with just about everybody!! Consider the voting is futile thread for examples.

From my perspective, I projected the death toll in the UK if the government didn't do a lockdown and it was over 400K deaths. That is more than the number of UK deaths in the second world war. I thought their initial plan of "herd immunity" was reckless and ridiculous. Just because I am a Conservative, it doesn't mean I listen to the Conservative (or Republican) government uncritically. I'm with the Democrats on Covid.

I read an interesting book once by (I think) a libertarian politician. In it, he talked about various thinking traps. One he called the Group Trap. You identify with a particular group, but you may not agree with all the principles of that group. And so that group identity can lead you into compromising your thinking, which contradicts your "real" beliefs. I've always remembered that and so never follow group think, even if I am a member. Instead, I am a member because I am largely aligned.

How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World: a Handbook for Personal Liberty: Browne, Harry: 9798645327477: Amazon.com: Books

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Ultimately, the Covid issue in the US seems like a political struggle between government control and free will. It reminds me in a way of the Rittenhouse case, a struggle between safety of an attacker and the right to self defense.

 

[Isaac]

There is a big fog before more data comes in

I agree! People handle this fog differently, with varying levels of optimism or pessimism.

Then there are the actual negative things known from the past, which many "experts" and authorities seem to ignore.

Frankly, I suspect it is just like technical design.

Often, when I finish a script, I almost-fully expect it to work, even though I've mistakenly messed up the prior 5 iterations.

Probably many professions are like this.

The optimist downplays past failures, the pessimist overstates them, and the 'realist' fails to realize they are actually one or the other

 

[Isaac]

Ultimately, the Covid issue in the US seems like a political struggle between government control and free will

I agree with that as well. It could be that people from other nations see us as just a bunch of uncooperative paranoid crazies (like Col does).

What they don't understand is that we have to deal with a political party who is currently using any excuse to gain a very pervasive, new, undesirable, inappropriate power--and they WILL use covid as an excuse, if given the chance. We have to maintain a healthy skepticism, our worries have been borne out in actual events by the hundreds just in the past year or two alone.

 

[Jon]

I know many Republicans distrust the validity and reliability of the data, and hence they have a particular view. I am less of what I believe to be a conspiracy theorist. One thing that does annoy me though is the Wuhan cover-up. WHO were complicit, as was Fauci, based on my limited understanding. Maybe I am being unfair to him, I don't now. But I did see his refusal to answer some pertinent questions from Republicans about the BLM protests being able to spread Covid. They asked him if the BLM protests were spreading Covid. He would only answer, "Large gatherings can spread Covid." Senator: "So the BLM protests are spreading Covid, correct?" Fauci: "Large gatherings can spread Covid"

It is both disingenuous and cowardly for him to not admit the truth: BLM protests spread Covid. Yet he refused to answer that specific question. I lost faith in him right at that moment.

 

[Jon]

I agree with that as well. It could be that people from other nations see us as just a bunch of uncooperative paranoid crazies (like Col does).

What they don't understand is that we have to deal with a political party who is currently using any excuse to gain a very pervasive, new, undesirable, inappropriate power--and they WILL use covid as an excuse, if given the chance. We have to maintain a healthy skepticism, our worries have been borne out in actual events by the hundreds just in the past year or two alone.

I have recently been forming a belief that the cause of extreme polorisation in the US might be free speech. I believe in free speech, but with the advent of social media, it seems that - due to human nature - everybody is digging in with their opposing views History might view free speech as a failed experiment, due to the uncontrollable urge to dispute your point!

 

[AccessBlaster]

For entertainment purposes only

 

[conception_native_0123]

I am due my booster, but with this new Omicron variant coming out, I'm not sure if I should wait or not. But since some early reports from South Africa say they had no hospitalisations, maybe Covid is petering out into something milder.

let us all hope JOn. something milder would suit me just fine, to be honest with ya. and....I started anew about the new variant, here:

Omicron

so....the WHO says that it is going to be dangerous. any other thoughts? Never in my wildest dreams would I have thought that a well known band from the 60s would get to weigh in so heavily on such a heavily political and touchy subject...

www.access-programmers.co.uk

we'll see if it takes off.

 

[Steve R.]

 

[Jon]

But you believe your life is in jeopardy because not everyone is vaccinated?

Let me deconstruct that statement because there are two implicit falsehoods in it.

Firstly, not believing what CNN says has no bearing on my perception of Covid risk. If they say your life is in jeopardy because not everyone is vaccinated that does not mean I believe the opposite just because they said it. Instead, I greatly distrust much of what CNN says and so get information from elsewhere to confirm or deny.

Secondly, your life IS in jeopardy because not everyone is vaccinated. It is after all contagious, right? Simple facts that are indisputable. However, I believe you need sufficient numbers of people to be vaccinated in order for the rate of spread to decrease enough so the viral coefficient is below 1. Then the number infected should consistently fall for that variant. That is altogether different than saying I believe everyone should be vaccinated.

Smallpox is a great example of something petering out due to vaccinations.

Think some about my death by bicycle analogy. Granted, that isn't a contagious disease but those deaths are 100% avoidable.

@Isaac and I had discussions that have a similar analogy, but instead about hospital admissions. I will alter to cater for the bicycle analogy to suit taste!

Cycling can risk your own life. It can be a killer. Yet being unvaccinated can increase the spread of a lethal disease and end up killing millions. Let us take for example Patient Zero. No Covid anywhere. For the sake of this thought experiment, pretend that they had the option of taking a vaccine against any Covid strains, be they common cold or Covid-19.

Person A decides to remain unvaccinated. They get infected and then start the spread of Covid, leading to millions dead. The disease ends up recurring year after year, like flu.

Person B decides to get vaccinated and they have reduced their risk of infection. In this case, they have saved millions of deaths. Yes, you can catch Covid if vaccinated, but we are talking about risks along a continuum, not binary yes or no. You are essentially reducing the risk of a mass catastrophe.

Compare that with a bicycle anology, where one person gets killed instead of millions. Not remotely comparable. As I mentioned in a previous post, it is the difference between a domino, and the domino effect.

Edit: Just thought of a good analogy: TNT vs nuclear fission! The outcomes are very different.

Whilst a new infection is not Patient Zero anymore, they are Patient Zero for those around them who get infected as a consequence.

Regarding antibiotics, there is some great research going on where they have found some that do not lead to resistance against them. I think they examined stuff in soil, or something like that!

The science is - do not take drugs you do not need to take.

I have a different view. Surpise surprise! I take a great interest in life extension science, and future medication to extend life and health spans. Without the drugs, significant improvements in these areas are unlikely. I can keep eating Blue Zone diets and intermittent fasting, but significant improvements are likely to be pharmological. That means you will be healthier if you constantly take drugs.

 

[NauticalGent]

Secondly, your life IS in jeopardy because not everyone is vaccinated. It is after all contagious, right?

IF...the CDC could actually provide proof that the vaccine prevents the spread of the virus or prevents the vaccinated from contracting it, I would agree.

At best the vaccine makes the recipient asymptomatic - virtually useless. Sorry folks, I am just not sold on it. I had to choose to either stand my ground or cave in to remain employed. I caved and I feel sick about it...

 

[Jon]

IF...the CDC could actually provide proof that the vaccine prevents the spread of the virus or prevents the vaccinated from contracting it, I would agree.

I believe no one is saying it prevents the spread, but reduces the spread. Same for contracting it.

It does beg the question though: what evidence would you need to see to convince you that it reduces the spread?

At best the vaccine makes the recipient asymptomatic - virtually useless.

Better than dead?

 

[AccessBlaster]

Isreal has reached herd immunity yet their numbers still climb

Edit: Israel